---

Mr. Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): We can all support the aims of the Road Safety Bill, because safety should be paramount on our roads at all times, and all classes of road user have a part to play—not only vehicle drivers but pedestrians, cyclists and passengers. Safety on our roads cannot be achieved merely by soaking motorists with fines and penalty points. The most effective approach is a mixture of education, incentive and, when a transgression has occurred, punishment, whether against a motorist for speeding, a cyclist for ignoring a red traffic light or a pedestrian for jaywalking—that is, stepping off the kerb into the highway when it is unsafe to do so. This is an ongoing battle, and it will not be won by the passage of the Bill. However, Members in all parties will have played their part if, during its parliamentary passage, we seek to improve its scope.

I turn first to the Bill's contents, before making one or two observations on matters that are—for the moment, at any rate—outwith its scope. Some of its provisions are non-contentious, and rightly so. The provisions on road safety grants are to be welcomed. It is right and proper that the income from fines should be used for local transport facilities, or to fund road safety improvements. Similarly, I welcome the provisions for graduated fixed penalties, and on graduated fixed penalty points. Those proposals make sense; graduations should certainly apply to points as well as to fines. Indeed, when the breach of the law has been minute, or there are exceptional circumstances, there might be a case for nil points being imposed. I hope that that is something we can examine in detail in Committee. Flexibility is important so that, as far as possible, punishment always fits the crime.

I have some concerns about vehicle examiners giving fixed penalty notices. When the Minister responds, I hope that he will address them. The police are trained in road traffic matters and the rules of evidence. Consequently, an honest policeman doing his job has a sense of fairness and justice when dealing with a motorist. If we give the power to issue fixed penalty notices to vehicle examiners, what training will they have? Will they be required to maintain a notebook in which to write down any comments made by a motorist that may be relevant in any plea of mitigation? What guidance will be given about when and where they should operate? Will they still need to be accompanied by an experienced police officer? If not, what powers will they have to stop a vehicle on the highway? I hope that the Minister can answer those questions when he addresses us later.

Clause 5 and schedule 1 clearly envisage a system in which fixed penalties are issued when the offences are detected remotely—that is, when video footage is viewed and vehicles that may not have insurance or a
 
8 Mar 2006 : Column 867
 
valid MOT are identified. Will the Minister consider formulating guidelines so that provision can be made for a camera to photograph and monitor vehicles before they are stopped by vehicle examiners on appropriate occasions?

During busy periods, it would make sense for vehicle examiners to have someone viewing a screen showing vehicles some distance away so that vehicles that have insurance and a current MOT can be allowed to pass without being pulled over. Vehicle examiners could then focus on those vehicles that have already been identified as perhaps being shady in some respect or as being on the road unlawfully. Where a law-abiding motorist is going about his business, every effort should be made to prevent him from being stopped unnecessarily and thereby having his journey time lengthened. I think that that makes sense, and I hope that the Minister does, too. Will he reassure the House that if these examiners are given the powers envisaged in the Bill, they will not suddenly appear in every constituency setting up road blocks and stopping traffic merely to raise more money for the Government? I hope that they will have a duty to behave reasonably, not oppressively.

The provisions in clause 11 relating to financial penalty deposits will be welcomed on both sides of the House. They are clearly aimed at foreign truckers who are competing for work with British truckers. Foreign truckers are, generally speaking, able to put cheaper fuel in their vehicles, and once they get to this country they often flout our laws and ignore fines when they are imposed. I warmly welcome the provisions in clause 11, which are long overdue. Most law-abiding motorists will welcome them too. But will they be used only against heavy goods vehicles, or will they also be used against private vehicles?

I shall give the Minister an example. Some years ago, I was introduced to an American gentleman who was over here studying. He revealed that his studies were expected to take three years or so. He had brought over an American vehicle, a Chevrolet Corvette. For those who do not know what that is, it is a powerful sports car. His idea was to use his American car with American plates while pursuing his studies and to sell the car over here when he concluded them and returned to America. I was appalled and alarmed to discover that he had allowed his insurance and the American equivalent of vehicle excise duty to lapse, but had kept the car on American plates. He thought it was a rather good wheeze to have motoring on the cheap while he was in the UK. That sort of behaviour is to be deplored. I know that it does not occur on the same scale as heavy goods vehicle drivers ignoring their fines, but does the Minister intend clause 11 to catch people who are in the UK for the time being and are using a vehicle registered overseas which does not have valid tax and insurance? Those cases ought to be caught by clause 11.

I am less sceptical than my hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) about alcohol ignition interlocks, but in Committee we should look closely at how the Minister thinks they will work, and at the ways in which some people might seek to get round them. I have heard that if a motorist fills up two or three balloons of the sort that are used at parties while he is sober and when he gets into his car after he has had a drink he connects one of them to the interlock, it will release the ignition so that the car can be started. We
 
8 Mar 2006 : Column 868
 
need to look at ways in which the unscrupulous, dishonest and drunk motorist could abuse this system if we approve it.

Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, because he is one the leading experts on this subject. On foreign number plates, I do not know if he is aware that in east Anglia there are a large number of east European migrant workers, many of them doing an excellent job working in the food processing industry in particular, and many of them have brought their cars over. There are examples where serious offences have been committed and the police have been unable to do anything about them.

Mr. Knight: I share my hon. Friend's hope that the Bill, particularly the clauses that relate to the exchange of information, will bring an end to that practice. I hope that we can arrive at a situation where the exchange of information with overseas Governments allows us to check vehicles. If they should not be on the road, I would favour their being impounded and confiscated.

The Liberal Democrat spokesman mentioned two points of interest; they will be referred to again in Committee, so I shall not go into too much detail. The first related to first aid and whether we should require a person taking a driving test to have a basic knowledge of first aid. At first blush, it is quite a good idea. However, I took my driving test 40 years ago, and if I had been required to learn the basics of first aid then, I would probably have forgotten them by now—so I would not welcome having to advise an injured person I came across by the roadside about the first aid attention he should receive. The idea is worthless unless there is a mechanism for making sure that motorists are kept up to date.

Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Devonport) (Lab): As a former lifeguard who has gone through all the training—although I have used my skills only outside a swimming pool—I take the right hon. Gentleman's point that skills have to be continually upgraded if they are to be used. But basic skills have been reasonably standard for some time, and we could save lives if motorists understood the basics and were able to take initial action.

Mr. Knight: The hon. Lady and I do not disagree on this point. If we were to have a free vote now, I think that on balance, I would go into the lobby for having some basic training. If we can save just one life, it is worth doing.

Tom Brake: The proposal would of course apply only to new applicants, not to people such as the right hon. Gentleman who gained their licence a number of years ago.

Mr. Knight: I realise that, but my point was that with time people who have taken their test become mature drivers, so at any one time there may be only a small percentage of motorists on the road who have up-to-date knowledge of first aid. If the provision is to be effective, we need to consider giving refresher courses—but that is something that we can properly explore in Committee.
 
8 Mar 2006 : Column 869
 

My next point is about cycle helmets. The Secretary of State said that views on the issue were fairly evenly divided. I agree, but I am alarmed that the Government are sanctioning a change in the highway code, and it will recommend that cyclists wear a cycle helmet. That sits ill with the fact that the Government are saying that as a matter of policy they are on the fence. In that case, why does the highway code argue that cycle helmets are necessary? If the highway code says that, there is a danger that soon lawyers will be arguing that if a child is knocked off a bike by a motorist who is guilty of careless driving, any damages in a civil case should be reduced if the child was not wearing a helmet. If the highway code is to be altered in that way, Ministers need to reflect again on their position.

---