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', and to the costs of installation of the equipment required, together with the likely resultant pay-back period.'.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments:
No. 73, in page 9, line 38, at end insert— '"equipment required" means the equipment which has to be installed to generate, connect and measure the electricity produced by dynamic demand technologies;'.
No. 74, in page 9, line 42, at end insert—
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'"pay-back period" means the time over which the costs of installation of equipment required for dynamic demand technologies can be recovered by the resultant reduced electricity costs.'.
Mr. Forth: We are now getting to the exciting bit of the Bill: dynamic demand technologies. This is high-tech, futuristic, blue skies material. Therefore, my comments will probably be fairly limited. It is worth pausing over this clause because it explores one of the deeper, darker recesses of microgeneration, and we should try to tease it out a bit. That is the objective of my amendments.
Let us put on the record what dynamic demand technologies are. Under clause 15(4)
(a) the consumption of electricity, at a particular time, by a device connected to a network, or,
(b) The generation of electricity, at a particular time, by an electricity microgenerating system connected to a network,
to be controlled or adjusted automatically by reference to, or matters relating to, the frequency of alternating current on the network at that time".
It is now clear to everybody what we are talking about.
"The Secretary of State must, not later than 12 months after this section comes into force, publish a report on the contribution that is capable of being made by dynamic demand technologies to reducing emission of greenhouse gases".
Interestingly, that is slightly redolent of the reference made earlier to the Energy Act 2004, in which a similar obligation was placed on the Minister. Although he has told us that he will fulfil that obligation by the end of this month, he did not meet the deadline. Here is another deadline that will be laid on him—the Minister is looking very surprised. Refreshed by his cup of coffee, he is obviously going to tell me something.
Malcolm Wicks: I am not sure what deadline I have not met. The micropower strategy will be published by the end of this month. That meets the deadline.
Mr. Forth: My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope), who has, as they say, done the maths, reckoned that the Minister has not made the deadline, but I am not going to fall out with the Minister over this. We have conducted these proceedings in a friendly manner so far, and I hope that that will continue, so I shall not labour the point.
Mr. Chope: I certainly did not intend to suggest that the Minister had not met his deadline. If he delivers by the end of this month, he will be just inside the 18-month maximum limit.
Mr. Forth: In that case, I unreservedly apologise to the Minister. I misconstrued my hon. Friend. I unreservedly withdraw any accusation I have made about the Minister.
1.15 pm
We can be optimistic that the 12 months mentioned in clause 15 will be met by the Minister, or, if he has been
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promoted by then, his successor. There will be an appraisal of the contribution that this exciting new technology may be able to make to the whole area of microgeneration and its relationship—real or imagined—to climate change. I thought that my amendments might stiffen the measure a bit. Subsection (3) states:
"In forming the view mentioned . . . the Secretary of State must have regard, in particular, to any matters which would prohibit or inhibit the use . . . of dynamic demand technology in any circumstance in which its use could be expected to make a contribution to reducing emissions of greenhouse gases in Great Britain."
Through amendment No. 72, I want to add
"and to the costs of installation of the equipment required, together with the likely resultant pay-back period".
Throughout our considerations, we have rather glossed over first, the possible costs of installing the various technologies to which we have referred and secondly, who would be expected to bear them.
This may be our opportunity to clarify the assumption—at least in my mind—that it will be the user, the consumer, who will install the equipment that is referred to in the clause and throughout the Bill. If it is not to be the consumer—I think that the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead) is about to help me on this question—who will bear the costs and what are the implications of that? Will the hon. Gentleman help us or will he leave me to speculate for a little while longer?
Dr. Whitehead indicated assent.
Mr. Forth: Oh good, the hon. Gentleman will let me speculate for a while. In that case, I will.
We have the possibility that the consumer will pay for all the equipment. The only other two possibilities that I can imagine—my imagination is limited, as you know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I shall try my best—are the suppliers or distributors of electricity, or our old favourite the Government, which usually means the taxpayer. It has to be one of those.
First, I want to identify what the costs will be. None of these measures will be cost-free; in fact, few environmental and climate control measures are cost-free—something that we can explore in much more depth on Third Reading. There will be a cost; it could be social—there could be all sorts of costs—but there is bound to be a cost for new technology and it is important that we identify it. That is why my amendment would make that a part of the process set out in clause 15, whereby the Secretary of State will on our behalf examine the new technology and report back on it. An important part of that examination would be an identification of the costs, because the technology sounds pretty expensive to me.
We have several resident experts—the promoter of the Bill, his hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test, the Minister and, on a good day, my Front-Bench colleagues—so an embarrassment of expertise surrounds me. I hope that at some point one of them will try to identify the possible costs—[Interruption.] Ah, I have had a nod and a wink from the promoter that his
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hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test will be the expert on this occasion. I very much look forward to what the hon. Gentleman has to say, because my modest amendment—I freely confess that it is modest—is intended to do something important: to bring an air of reality to the measure.
Bills such as this tend to express good hopes, good wishes, motherhood, aspirations, 50-year perspectives, saving the planet and global everything, but at some stage we have to get down to the realities on the ground, in the home and in the back garden. Who will buy the equipment? Who will install it? Who will pay for its maintenance? Who will ensure that in cases such as we have been discussing matters are recorded accurately? All those things are, or should be, relevant to any consideration of taking forward such technology. It does not come free, in money terms or many other terms, including environmental and social terms. So what my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch and I are trying to do throughout today's proceedings is to show that we should bring greater honesty and clarity to the process involved in the Bill, and that it is not good enough to brush these things aside and say, "Don't worry, folks; it will all be very good indeed and we are doing our bit to save the planet, so let's get on with it." I believe that we should always have an eye to what is practicable, what is achievable and what is in this case acceptable in terms of costs.
This really is a modest but important series of amendments, to try to bring that perspective to this exciting-sounding technology, which—who knows?—may, if it works, and if the Secretary of State tells us in 12 months that he thinks it can work, make this idea of microgeneration even more effective. That surely would be something that everyone here would want to happen.
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