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Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): I have listened with interest to the remarks that have been made. At the beginning of the whole debate, the Home Secretary pointed out that the measure was essential in the fight against terrorism. Those who come from Northern Ireland certainly have a great interest in that, because we have been doing that for more than 30 years, particularly and personally. Many of our colleagues have suffered grievously because of that. However, at the time when the Home Secretary was presenting the measure as so essential in the fight against terrorism, we could not understand why the scheme was going to be voluntary and was going to come in in 2008. Now we hear the date of 2010.
It is interesting to note that a Labour Member, speaking about how essential the measure was, said that it would aid the fight against crime, fraud and identity fraud, but seemingly someone can be a criminal or a fraudster, or be involved in the identity fraud game, up until 2010. As far as my colleagues and I are concerned, on the fight against crime or terrorism we believe that if something is essential, it is essential now. However, it seems that the measure is to do so with something other than the fight against terrorism. It is like Big Brother
29 Mar 2006 : Column 1012
desiring all the details of the citizens of the United Kingdom. My colleagues and I will vote against the Lords amendments.
Sir Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr. McCrea), who always speaks with experience. His experience was missed for many a year in the House, but he is now with us again.
It is said often—you know as well as I do, Mr. Deputy Speaker—that it is true that everything that can be said has been said, but not everyone has said it. At this stage of this Bill, everything that could be said, either in the other place or here, has in fact been said. I will thus not particularly draw out my remarks.
The hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. Clegg) used his notes copiously, and copiously did he use them. May I give him some advice? He will be better off in the future if he puts more of his thoughts into his mind, rather than reading them from paper. He also said that the Bill was rammed through, but if I may say so, that shows a lack of intellectual rigour in his remarks. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Steve McCabe) said that the Bill has been subject to scrutiny.
I wish to be kind to Liberal Democrat Members. I could say that their speeches are sanctimonious and filled with cant and hypocrisy, but I would not wish to cast aspersions on any particular Member. I have sat in the Chamber for many a year listening to the same kind of speech, but they have not had the slightest effect in the country or anywhere else.
I hold the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) in high regard. He made a fine speech, but I must remind him that he made the same speeches under the Government of John Major. He literally hacked that Government to death, but when it came to a vote of confidence, he found himself in the same Lobby as John Major. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to find himself in the Lobby tonight with the Liberals, Godspeed to him.
Mr. Cash: The hon. Gentleman is trespassing on a matter of some importance. I simply say to him that if the vote of confidence had gone the other way, his party would have come into government with a more federal Europe than we would have achieved under the Maastricht treaty.
Sir Stuart Bell: We might also have brought about the kind of economic reforms that we saw from 1997.
Let me make some kind remarks—I hope that they are kind—about the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes). He reminded me, if I might go into Shakespeare, of the blasted heath of "King Lear":
I am sure that the country will take that into account. He urged the country to take note of him through our television screens, although, of course, that is against the rules of the House.
29 Mar 2006 : Column 1013
I will finish with a kind word for the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd). I simply say to him that Edmund Burke would be very proud of him tonight.
Question put, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment:—
The House divided: Ayes 301, Noes 84.
AYES
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Brokenshire, James
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Mr. Des
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Butterfill, Sir John
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Caton, Mr. Martin
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Drew, Mr. David
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Engel, Natascha
Etherington, Bill
Fabricant, Michael
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Field, Mr. Mark
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Hayes, Mr. John
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Khabra, Mr. Piara S.
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Lucas, Ian
MacDougall, Mr. John
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh Mr. John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meale, Mr. Alan
Mercer, Patrick
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh Mr. David
Miliband, Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moffatt, Laura
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moran, Margaret
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, Joan
Salter, Martin
Seabeck, Alison
Shaw, Jonathan
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, Ms Rosie
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. Ian Cawsey and
Kevin Brennan
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Afriyie, Adam
Alexander, Danny
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Barrett, John
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Brake, Tom
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, Malcolm
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Lorely
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Cash, Mr. William
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Corbyn, Jeremy
Davey, Mr. Edward
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Donaldson, Mr. Jeffrey M.
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Foster, Mr. Don
Galloway, Mr. George
George, Andrew
Gidley, Sandra
Goldsworthy, Julia
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Heath, Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holmes, Paul
Hopkins, Kelvin
Horwood, Martin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, David
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunter, Mark
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jones, Lynne
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Kramer, Susan
Lamb, Norman
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
McCrea, Dr. William
McDonnell, John
Moore, Mr. Michael
Mulholland, Greg
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
Öpik, Lembit
Pugh, Dr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rennie, Willie
Rogerson, Mr. Dan
Rowen, Paul
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simpson, David
Smith, Sir Robert
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Taylor, David
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Webb, Steve
Weir, Mr. Mike
Williams, Mark
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Wilson, Sammy
Wishart, Pete
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Noes:
Jenny Willott and
Mr. Roger Williams
Question accordingly agreed to.
29 Mar 2006 : Column 1015
Lords amendment No. 22M agreed to.
Subsequent Lords amendments agreed to.
29 Mar 2006 : Column 1016
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