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Sir Gerald Kaufman: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Abba Eban, the former Israeli Foreign Minister with whom I worked closely on trying to resolve this issue, and who was wiser than the entire present Israeli Government put together, once said to me, “If you’re going to make peace, who else do you talk to but your enemy?”?
Mr. Simpson: Yes, I understand that, and it is true unless one is ultimately faced with a war of annihilation and extermination. I understand, from an Israeli point of view, having been in that position once before, that they are sceptical to say the least. It is up to us collectively to make certain that that does not happen, through robust support of Israel while recognising that we want to work for a political solution.
12.17 pm
The Minister for Trade (Mr. Ian McCartney): Good afternoon, Mr. Chope. The last time we were here together was six years ago, when you initiated a debate on Government drugs policy. I do not know if you remember that, but I do.
I thank the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) for initiating this important debate, which is part of the framework of discussion and debate on this and related issues taking place in this House. It marks this place out as a democratic institution. What we say here is listened to not just within the confines of this place but outside it. Today’s debate may give some people hope that there will be co-operation across the piece regarding the strategic importance of the region and the need to resolve the problems there through dialogue rather than conflict in all circumstances.
I thank the hon. Members for Enfield, Southgate (Mr. Burrowes), for Reigate (Mr. Blunt), for Mid-Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) and for Teignbridge (Richard Younger-Ross) for their timely contributions, and my colleagues, my right hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Jane Kennedy), my hon. Friends the Members for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn), for Hartlepool (Mr. Wright) and for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Simon).
I thank also my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) who has shown his knowledge and skill on this issue, as he has on many issues in the Labour movement, and who gives wise counsel on occasions. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington, I, too, am a fan of my right hon. Friend, who has a quiet courage. More than 15 years ago, when it was not the thing to do, he was one of the first people to speak out on this issue about the need to bring together enemies to discuss, debate and ultimately reach a decision about recognising Israel and its secure borders and recognising the right of the Palestinian people within its secure borders. Part of the development of this policy has been due to my right hon. Friend. On almost all occasions, he has taken the first step in the development of such policies, and I thank him for that.
In the time that I have left, I will try to deal as best I can with all the issues raised by hon. Members. However, at least 12 issues have been raised, so if I cannot deal with them all, I will write to hon. Members and place the letters in the Library, so that all those who took part in the debate will get responses, if that is helpful.
The current situation in Gaza is deeply worrying. It is a serious concern for all of us and for our international partners. I would like to reiterate the deep concern that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs expressed on behalf of the Government on 25 June, after the attack near the Sufa crossing, in which two Israeli soldiers were killed and one was taken captive.
The UK continues to call for the immediate and unconditional release of Corporal Shalit. We, and our European Union and G8 partners, are also urging Israel to show the utmost restraint at this time of crisis. We have made clear our concerns about the destruction of essential infrastructure affecting power and water supplies. We will continue to urge Israel to protect civilians, and to call on the Palestinians to put an end to all acts of violence and help to seek the safe return of Corporal Shalit.
My hon. Friend
the Member for Islington, North raised a particular point about the
wall—the barrier. I confirm to him that although Israel has the
right to
self-defence, the building of the barrier in occupied land is contrary
to international law. There is no doubt about that. On 15 September
2005, the Israeli court ordered the rerouting of the barrier because of
its damaging impact on some Palestinian villages in the west bank area.
The Government continue to be concerned about the route of the barrier
in the occupied territories, because it is
illegal.
Richard Burden: I know that the Minister has to get through his 12 points, so I shall be as brief as possible. On his last point, perhaps he, in consultation with his ministerial team, could make the strongest possible representations to the Government of Israel about the latest construction of the barrier. It is already uprooting olive trees in the Cremisan area of Bethlehem, which is home to a monastery where some fairly fine wines are made. It is one of the world’s greatest heritage sites and the routing of the wall means that it is being cut off as we speak.
Mr. McCartney: I fully take on board what my hon. Friend says, and I shall take the matter up as he requested.
Today, all democracies around the world face a common threat: international terrorism. Terrorist networks do not recognise borders, and their deadly attacks have been perpetrated in different nations across the globe, irrespective of religion, ethnicity, or culture. The threat is of a new order because of the willingness of small groups to inflict mass casualties in pursuit of radical objectives.
The international response over the past few years has made significant ground, and for the first time many nations and cultures are working together to combat this menace. The concept of an international community, based on core, shared values, recognising the need to uphold civil rights, and prepared actively to intervene and resolve problems, is an essential precondition of a nation’s future prosperity and stability.
In bilateral and multilateral forums, the UK is working to weaken the capabilities of terrorist groups by promoting international co-operation and building political will and government capacity in key countries. We are promoting reform abroad to address the structural problems that can push people towards extremism with violent consequences. We are also learning from other countries, such as Malaysia, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where there is good engagement in programmes of de-radicalisation.
State sponsorship of terrorism is totally unacceptable; it is beyond tolerance, in fact. It is an instrument that Governments should and must abandon. Where Governments continue to believe that agreement with terrorists’ objectives justifies their methods, the British Government’s view is simple: such state promotion of terrorism is unjustifiable and must cease. There is no moral distinction between an attacker who deliberately targets civilians or a state that wittingly provides the resources that facilitate such a terrorist attack in the first place.
We are actively examining the
problem of states that offer refuge or support to terrorists, and are
tackling other areas where they may enjoy a safe haven. We
continue to encourage international action to curb those who advocate or
champion terrorism. I shall say a little about that later.
I also want to make it clear that our relationship with Israel is vital. There are cultural, trade, investment, education, defence and political links, and a regular exchange between our two countries. We also have a vibrant Jewish community here, and that is so important. The contribution made by that community, and other former immigrant communities, makes this country what it is: a proud, diverse, multicultural and tolerant society. The contribution is not only welcome, but recognised. It brings about a flourishing bilateral relationship. I shall be visiting the region in the months ahead.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton and the hon. Member for Lichfield raised the issue of the middle east peace process. The Government remain absolutely committed to the process that will lead to a negotiated two-state solution. Our immediate priority is to create the conditions to allow negotiations to get under way. Only through a negotiated settlement can we achieve a lasting peace; there can be no violent solution to this conflict. We remain firmly committed to reviving the final status negotiations as soon as possible on the basis of the Quartet road map, and we continue to give every impetus we can to moving the process in that direction. We reiterate our call to Hamas to adhere to the three Quartet principles: renounce violence; recognise Israel; and accept previous agreements, including the road map.
We are clear that we need to see a change in Syrian policy in a number of key areas before Syria’s standing in the international community can be fully rehabilitated and before our bilateral relationships can improve. It needs to fulfil its obligation under Security Council resolution 1559, which calls for an end to all foreign interference in Lebanon, and to co-operate fully and unconditionally with the United Nations commission investigating the terrorist attack in February 2005 which resulted in the death of the former Lebanese Prime Minister, Rafik Hariri, and 22 other innocent people.
Syria also needs to do more to improve co-operation in Iraq, and must think carefully about its relationship with Iran. We must also seek progress towards internal reform in Syria and greater respect for human rights. It is absolutely clear to the Syrians that we expect them to use their undoubted influence to secure de-escalation and restraint in the region. They must dissociate themselves from the terrorists responsible for the tragic, untimely and futile violence in the region.
The hon. Member for Lichfield
also raised the issue of Iran and set out widely held concerns about
its
approach to terrorism. Progress in our relationships with Iran will
depend on its acting in this and other areas, including the
proliferation of weapons, and human rights. We have repeatedly pressed
Iran to renounce all links to groups using violence and to support a
solution to the Palestinian issue based on the principle of the two
states living side by side in peace and security. Iran funds and has
strong connections to Lebanese Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad,
and provides financial support to Hamas. We are continuing to
investigate the improvised explosive device attacks in Iraq, where the
nature of some of the explosive devices used against our troops
continues to lead us to Iranian elements or to Lebanese
Hezbollah.
The proliferation of nuclear weapons in the middle east would severely threaten peace and stability in the region. We, together with France, Germany, the United States, Russia and China, have been at the forefront of international efforts to encourage Iran to address serious international concerns about its nuclear activities. We have proposed a way forward to give Iran everything it needs to develop modern, civil nuclear power programmes, while meeting international concerns. To create the conditions for talks to resume, Iran should reinstate its suspension of enrichment-related reprocessing activities, as required by the International Atomic Energy Agency board and the Security Council. We would then suspend action inthe Security Council. We hope that Iran will take the positive path that is being offered. Should it not do so, there should be no doubt that the matter will return to the Security Council for further responses.
On Iraq, our complete commitment is to a democratic and stable Iraq, to bring about peace and prosperity not only to the people of Iraq but to the region as a whole.
Hon. Members have spoken about intelligence co-operation. It is not normal practice to discuss intelligence matters, and they will understand why, but I give an absolute assurance that there is close co-operation between the UK organisations, including the police, security and intelligence agencies and Departments, and many other countries, not just Israel.
Finally, I again thank the hon. Member for Lichfield for initiating this in-depth debate. I shall return with a more detailed reply on some of the issues that he and other hon. Members raised.
Counter-terrorism measures exist to help us preserve democratic and free societies. At the most basic level, measures that protect innocent civilians of whatever religion, ethnicity or culture from an attack are supporting one of the most basic human rights—the right to be alive—and they protect people’s ability to enjoy fully their other rights. We respect and promote human rights not only because it is the correct thing to do, but because it is one of the most effective ways to undermine the terrorists. I again thank the hon. Gentleman for this debate.
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