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Mr. Heald: As the Minister knows, if complaints are made against ordinary claims handling companies—not trade unions—a whole range of investigatory powers come into play, such as search and so on. Why does she think they are unnecessary for trade unions?
Bridget Prentice: I thought that I had just made it as patently clear as I possibly could that, if the trade union falls below the standard set out in the code and continues to offer the services, all the enforcement powers under clause 7 would apply to it, too.
New clause 1 is unnecessary because we do not need further definition of the criteria in legislation and it would militate against the purpose of exemption. It would be too rigid and might mean, for example, that an individual citizens advice bureau would have to be assessed against the criteria. That would be unnecessarily bureaucratic and disproportionate.
New clauses 2 and 5 are also unnecessary. As I have explained, if the behaviour of an exempt organisation falls below the required standard, the Secretary of State can withdraw the exemption. Once it is withdrawn, an exempt organisation that continues to provide the service without authorisation will be committing an offence under clause 6 and can be prosecuted. The separate offence that the hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire proposes is superfluous, as is a separate power to seek an injunction—it is already contained in the Bill. What he proposes would also make the penalty for failing to comply with the code of practice attached to an exemption more stringent than the penalties for authorised persons who break the rules. That seems to be to be the wrong way round.
8.45 pm
I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) that trade unions play an extremely valuable role in assisting ordinary hard-working people. They have a long history of championing the rights of workers in relation to health and safety at work and employment. They are also among the most regulated organisations in the country, which is another reason why it is unnecessary to make them immediately part of the regulatory issue in the Bill. However, we have to recognise the concerns that my hon. Friends the Members for North Durham (Mr. Jones) and for Bassetlaw (John Mann) raised about a small number of trade unions in relation to the coal health compensation scheme. I take those concerns very seriously and have been working with them and the Law Society to ensure that those issues are resolved. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon understands the reasons for this approach. We want to do something that is proportionate for trade unions, but we also want the power to protect union members in the rare cases where the service that they receive is not up to scratch. On that basis, I hope that he will not press his new clause.
On amendment No. 5, the hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire spoke of his concerns about inappropriate and misleading advertising. I agree with him that some of the advertising is outrageous and has to be condemned absolutely. An essential part of the claims management regulatory framework will be rules governing the conduct of authorised persons. Compliance with those rules will
be a condition of authorisation and any authorised person who does not comply will face disciplinary action by the regulator. That can include attaching conditions to their authorisation—for example, preventing them from providing a particular type of service or from handling client money. It can also involve suspending their authorisation or cancelling it.
Advertising is a crucial area. The key issue is that it should not be misleading to consumers. That is covered by the codes of the Advertising Standards Authority and the authorised person’s responsibilities can be reinforced in the rules with explicit reference to the ASA codes. The rules will help to ensure that authorised persons adhere to high standards across all their marketing activities, which will be enforceable by the regulator. The rules that we have issued set out what we expect the standards applied to authorised persons to be. That includes not making misleading or exaggerated statements; not using expressions such as “no win, no fee” without qualification, unless there is no possibility of the client having to meet any costs that he may have incurred in connection with the claim; and not offering an immediate cash payment or similar payment as an inducement for making a claim. I hope that that reassures the hon. Gentleman.
On new clause 11, the Law Society has taken action to deal with complaints about solicitors who have taken costs in addition to those paid by the Government under the terms of the coal health compensation scheme. The Law Society has assured me that it takes complaints made to it about the scheme very seriously and many solicitors have already been referred to the solicitors disciplinary tribunal for disciplinary action. I empathise with Members who have first-hand experience of the disgraceful behaviour of some of those solicitors. I hope that they take some comfort from the knowledge that action is being taken against those who breach the rules. I understand that some £3.6 million that was made from additional charges has been repaid. But, of course, that is not enough. I know that colleagues in this House are working hard on behalf of their constituents to get additional fees returned, and I welcome the fact that they will continue to do so. I will continue to monitor the Law Society’s handling of these complaints.
I spoke in Committee about the requirement for claims management companies to provide the regulator with details about the information that they give to clients about fees. That is a key aspect of the authorisation criteria. The information that is given to clients should be clear and transparent. That is crucial and will be an important requirement of the rules.
It is our intention that the regulation should be effective and have teeth. The regulator will not tolerate attempts to mislead or misinform consumers, because that would be a clear breach of the rules with which all authorised persons will be expected to comply if they wish to provide a regulated claims management service. An authorised person who is found to be in breach of the rules will be severely reprimanded, and the sanctions will include the authorisation being suspended or cancelled. Given those stringent safeguards, I hope that my hon. Friends will not press new clause 11 to a Division.
Points were raised about the code of practice. We have an early draft of the code at present, and it is still being discussed in detail with unions, legal professionals
and others. We can thus think about including a consideration of clarity about fees and funding in those discussions. I can tell my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw that Vendside would not be subject to the exemption in the first place. As a separate company, it would have to be authorised if it wanted to continue to carry out claims management services. It is our intention that any subsidiary company, whether owned wholly or in part by a trade union, will not fall within the terms of the exemption. The only bodies covered by the exemption will be independent trade unions listed by the certification officer.
Let me turn to retrospection. Clause 8 will allow the Secretary of State to make transitional provision in regulations. For example, that will allow provision to be made for the regulator to use his discretion to investigate complaints relating to an authorised person in respect of conduct that began before the commencement of the Bill and continued after that commencement.
There will be a definition of a member in the exemption order. We have been absolutely clear that the exemption will be limited to members and their families. When trade unions act as claims farmers and pursue claims on behalf of non-members, they will have to be regulated. I have made it clear that we will ensure that there are no loopholes. Trade unions will not be able to sign up associate members only for the purpose of dealing with claims. However, retired members will be included in the exemption because they will clearly be part of a legitimate trade union activity.
The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) made an interesting point when he asked the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) about minimum turnover requirements for smaller businesses. We are consulting on the fees payable by companies for their authorisation. However small a company’s turnover, it is the consumer who needs proper safeguards to ensure that there is adequate protection. We are examining the situation so that there is as much balance as possible.
Government amendments Nos. 11 and 12 will put beyond doubt the fact that the Secretary of State could bring claims management services that were provided in relation to industrial injuries disablement benefits within the regulatory net. As well as listening carefully to hon. Members’ concerns, we have continued to speak to many stakeholders about the introduction of the new regulatory regime. That has included discussions with Citizens Advice and Judge Michael Harris, the president of the social security and child support appeals tribunal, both of whom have raised concerns about claims management in relation to claims for industrial injuries disablement benefits and some other welfare benefits. Commercial intermediaries typically charge a flat fee for such a service, or take a percentage of the benefit payment if the claim is successful. Claims of that type would be made at a time when a person was already suffering from the trauma of the injury, which would make them more vulnerable. If consumers are being targeted, we want to be able to help by stepping in and providing appropriate protection.
We have considered further the definition in clause 3. Despite its breadth, there is sufficient doubt about whether claims management services for such claims would be covered to justify bringing forward the amendments. The amendments explicitly allow the Secretary
of State to bring claims management services provided in relation to industrial injuries disablement benefits within the regulatory net by allowing an order to be made which defines these as claims for the purposes of part 2 of the Bill. The order will be subject to the affirmative procedure. That means that claims management services in relation to industrial injuries disablement benefits could be regulated by order under clause 3(2)(e).
The amendment is precisely targeted on industrial injuries disablement benefits, which are benefits of a compensatory nature. It does not extend to welfare benefits more generally, because that would be beyond the scope of the Bill. There is some limited evidence of organisations offering advice on claims for other social security benefits on a commercial basis, but they are most active in the area of industrial injuries benefits. Our debate will serve our consideration of the code of practice. All hon. Members should be assured that it will be taken into account.
I have reflected on the issues raised by the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey. Parliament should have the opportunity to debate the initial exemption order under clause 5 and any subsequent restriction or removal of exemption. We hope to capture almost everyone in the first order, but we are working with an unusually broad definition, so if a small number of organisations emerge that fall within the definition but on which it is not appropriate to regulate, subsequent orders can be used to tidy up anomalies. I would not want to take up valuable parliamentary time on those, but I am pleased to say to the hon. Gentleman that I am delighted to accept amendments Nos. 15 and 16.
Mr. Heald: I thank the Minister for her helpful assurances about advertising, which is an important issue. There have been some dreadful examples of advertising by claims handlers and it is welcome that she is to be so active on that issue.
I welcome the Minister’s announcement about industrial injuries benefits take-up campaigns by commercial claims handlers, and the amendment that deals with that. It is welcome that she has agreed to the affirmative resolution procedure for the exemption orders.
I listened to what the Minister said about associate membership of trade unions and the abuse about which we have heard from the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones). She responded by saying that cases of associate membership will be regulated, and that is also a welcome move.
There is a lot to welcome, but as the Minister knows I have said from the outset that there should be a level playing field for trade unions and other forms of claims handler. I concede that she has responded to the particular abuse of associate membership, but as we heard from the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), there is still concern about organisations such as the BNP trying to convert to trade unions to benefit from the exemption. Over recent years, we have seen a certain desperation in particular sections of trade unions to get at the money in order to survive. Against that background, I am not as confident as the Minister that a purely voluntary arrangement for trade unions—exempting them specially—is the right way forward. I therefore ask my colleagues to join me in the Lobby in support of new clause 1, which is vital if we are to create a level playing field in this area.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—
The House divided: Ayes 162, Noes 301.
AYES
Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Binley, Mr. Brian
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burt, Alistair
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Conway, Derek
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Duddridge, James
Duncan, Mr. Alan
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Fallon, Mr. Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mr. Mark
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Mr. Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Gray, Mr. James
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harper, Mr. Mark
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Heath, Mr. David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Nick
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Horam, Mr. John
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Hughes, Simon
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Kawczynski, Daniel
Key, Robert
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McCrea, Dr. William
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
Öpik, Lembit
Paice, Mr. James
Paisley, rh Rev. Ian
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Randall, Mr. John
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Rennie, Willie
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Rogerson, Mr. Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rowen, Paul
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spink, Bob
Spring, Mr. Richard
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Taylor, Mr. Ian
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Walter, Mr. Robert
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Webb, Steve
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wright, Jeremy
Yeo, Mr. Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Ayes:
Angela Watkinson and
Mr. David Evennett
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Cook, Frank
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Eagle, Angela
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr. Jimmy
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khabra, Mr. Piara S.
Kidney, Mr. David
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
MacDougall, Mr. John
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh Mr. John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moran, Margaret
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, James
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, Joan
Salter, Martin
Seabeck, Alison
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Short, rh Clare
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Timms, Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vaz, Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Tellers for the Noes:
Jonathan Shaw and
Huw Irranca-Davies
Question accordingly negatived.
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