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Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The letter of the three-minute limit expires at this point, but perhaps its spirit could survive for a few more minutes.
5.28 pm
Barbara Keeley (Worsley) (Lab): I want to focus my comments on the impact of the conflict on Israeli, Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, particularly women and children, and the need for the international community to work to bring an end to the fighting and return to negotiations.
As we see, the media show us harrowing pictures from both sides of the conflict every day. Last night, two Israeli children, who were brothers, were killed after Hezbollah’s Katyusha rockets hit the Arab-Israeli town of Nazareth. We know that more than 200 people, many of them civilians, have been killed in Lebanon. That reality is echoed in the calls of the International Women’s Commission for a Just and Sustainable Peace between Palestine and Israel. The IWC is an international body of Palestinian, Israeli and international women, established in 2005 under the auspices of the United Nations Development Fund for Women. At a recent emergency meeting, IWC members requested the Quartet to intervene to stop fighting and expressed their deep concern at the current crisis in Israel, Palestine and Lebanon, which they see as threatening the region as a whole. They called for an immediate return to the political process, led by the international community.
Groupings of women in the middle east have for many years kept the discussions going across the political divide as continued dialogue is the only way to return to the political process. Before coming to the Chamber today, I spoke to two representatives from the IWC in a conference call. They were Professor Galia Golan, an Israeli member, and Miss Samia Bamia, a Palestinian member. I shall give the House a brief account of some of their thoughts and suggestions on the situation.
The two representatives felt that the public internationally are ignoring the war in Gaza, but there is still a large toll of civilian deaths in that conflict. The Israeli representative said that while there was public support in Israel for the action described by the military as weakening Hezbollah, that support is lessening as the conflict deepens. Among women, there is a growing feeling that the response is not commensurate with the incursions that cause the military action. Both the women stressed the need for the international community to intervene to achieve a negotiated withdrawal, a ceasefire and an exchange of prisoners, and they are looking to the Quartet to assist that return to negotiations.
The Israeli representative, Professor Galia Golan, also spoke about stopping the boycott of funds to the Palestinian Government. While she had little sympathy for Hamas, she felt that it was wrong to ignore the levels of hardship caused by the boycott and that it was now starting to weaken the voice of moderates. Both representatives repeatedly stressed the importance of the need for intervention by the UK, the Quartet and the international community. In fact, from Palestine, Samia Bamia said that there was anger growing at the feeling that the international community was watching, but not acting to help a return to the political process.
Both
representatives highlighted the fact that women’s voices need to
be heard. The Israeli representative repeatedly said that there was a
gender
divide in public opinion. Although women felt that it was terrible to be
bombed, they felt that the conflict had to stop.
The IWC wants to continue a dialogue and to build understanding, even in these difficult times. We also discuss what is needed if a ceasefire can be brought about. It was felt that UNIFIL had lost trust and was no help in protecting the border. It would be helpful, in terms of responding to the people who took part in the conference call, if my hon. Friend the Minister could tell the House anything more about the proposals for that force when he responds to the debate.
I also hope that the Minister will be able to find a way to support the work of the IWC for a just and sustainable Palestinian and Israeli peace. As I have said, women have played a vital role in conflict resolution and peace building in other conflicts. We should not ignore their role, but support their efforts as they work across the divide and urge both sides to cease fire and return to negotiation.
5.32 pm
Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): As I am morally bound to speak for just three minutes—and I shall do so—I shall make only two points. The first is to agree with my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack) when he said that various people will be rubbing their hands with glee at the developments that have taken place. In particular, the strategists in Tehran will be doing so, because Hezbollah would not have initiated this cycle of violence and counter- action without orders and permission from Iran. We have to ask why Iran would want to give that permission. The answer is obvious when we look at the proportion of time spent in this very debate on the issue of the confrontation between Israel and Lebanon, compared with the time spenton the Iranian quest for nuclear weapons. This development is assisting Iran in its quest to become a nuclear power, and we should draw appropriate lessons from that.
I thought today that, for the first time in nine years in this House, I would agree with something said by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), when he told the story of the frog and the scorpion and how they both drowned because the scorpion stings the frog in mid-river, despite not being able to swim. However, for some reason, the right hon. Gentleman chose to change the ending. The ending actually is that as they are both drowning, the scorpion admits to the frog that it knew that it would also die, but it could not help stinging because that is in its nature.
What is the nature of some of the groups that are operating in the conflict today? We owe a debt to my hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), who has just published a new book, “Celsius 7/7”, which traces some of the ideological roots of Islamism. He quotes one of its founding fathers as saying, when talking about the ideal Islamist state, that
“a state of this
sort cannot evidently restrict the scope of its activities...It
seeks to mould every aspect of life and activity in consonance with its
moral norms and programmes of social reform. In such a state, no one
can regard any field of his affairs
as personal and private. Considered from this perspective the Islamic
State bears a kind of resemblance to the Fascist and Communist
states.”
What we are dealing with in Hamas and Hezbollah are totalitarian movements. This House can prate all it likes about immediate ceasefires and two-state solutions, but as long as there are actors on the scene who do not wish for anything else but to create a new holocaust as they deny the last one, those solutions will not suffice.
5.36 pm
Stewart Hosie (Dundee, East) (SNP): I wish briefly to take the Minister for the Middle East back to the subject of the preparations for the evacuation. I asked him earlier this week whether the Royal Navy would evacuate not only those who are United Kingdom passport holders, but their dependents who might not be. He gave a clear answer, but I ask him that question again because a news broadcast of last night had a caption saying that “UK passport holders” had been asked to assemble. Can he look into this as a matter of urgency, in case a slightly incorrect message is going out?
We all view with great concern what is going in Lebanon, and in particular the potential for the collapse of democracy there and the very real possibility of a new civil war. That alone should be an encouragement to us all to support the creation of a United Nations intervention force with, as the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) said, a very strong mandate indeed. We cannot expect a fragile Government in the fragile democracy of Lebanon to disband or disarm Hezbollah ontheir own. That would certainly lead to civil war, and I suspect that the last thing Israel needs is another failed state on its northern border.
The hon. Member for Milton Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey) talked about the perception that we were not being even-handed. Some of the comments coming out of the west have not been even-handed, but we must be so. That means that when we call for the kidnapped soldiers to be released immediately and for the missile strikes to stop immediately, we must also call for the Israeli shelling to stop and for the collective punishment of those in Gaza and Lebanon, who might not be Hamas voters or Hezbollah fighters, to cease at the same time. For that to happen, the immediate fighting must come to an end, and I find it extraordinary that the UK Government have thus far equivocated, even on calling for an immediate ceasefire to effect those ends.
As we all know, the ongoing suffering of the Palestinian people is an open sore. It continues to radicalise people and to act as a recruiting sergeant throughout the Muslim world and the middle east. Therefore, we must deliver the long-term solution—the two-state solution of Palestine and Israel. We must return to the road map.
The UK has a massive role to
play in that. As a permanent member of the United Nations Security
Council, a G8 member and a large state within the European Union, it
has a great deal of weight that it can use. However, at the moment I
fear—not least
because of unguarded comments in the press earlier this week—that
in many parts of the world the UK is seen as a client of the USA, and
that must cease. There must be a coherent and robust position to bring
all sides around the negotiating table and demand an immediate
ceasefire; that must happen as quickly as
possible.
5.38 pm
Mr. Keith Simpson (Mid-Norfolk) (Con): This debate was called for by a number of hon. Members and hon. Friends, not least those of us who are regular attendees of middle east debates in Westminster Hall. I know that the Government were nervous about holding this debate—and, as a former Whip, I can imagine that it was constrained in its time as much as possible. However, the Government should not have been worried about it. This debate has proved that Members can argue very strongly and passionately about an issue that is very important. In the words of the Foreign Secretary, the current crisis is perhaps one of the greatest in the middle east that we have had to face. I urge Ministers to bear in mind Members’ calls for another statement or debate on this important subject, and to provide one perhaps next week.
Many Members have spoken, some of them under the enormous constraint of having only three minutes, and I shall not attempt to fill up my 10 minutes by reading out a list of names and making a few brief comments; instead, I shall pick out a few speeches.
The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Davies) made his maiden speech in the middle of this important debate, and I congratulate him on it. My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (John Bercow), who rightly pointed out that this debate is on not the middle east but international affairs, spoke with passion—and within the allotted time—on the very important subjects of Darfur and Burma. I note that he has tabled a question on Burma for next week’s Foreign Affairs Question Time.
The Foreign Secretary spoke with a degree of caution, given the minefield through which she is attempting to steer Government policy, and the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Mr. Moore) spoke with great reasonableness. But as you might expect me to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) spoke very well indeed—I say that not because he happens to lead for the Conservatives on foreign affairs—across a wide waterfront about middle east issues. Importantly, he talked about what needs to be done.
Members in all parts of the House, whatever position they adopted on the middle east, agreed that this conflict has the potential not only to be highly local, with an immediate impact on people living in Israel, Gaza and Lebanon, but to draw in other countries as well, and to be a nightmare scenario for all of us.
So the real
question that we face is, can Britain actually make a difference in
this crisis? Here, I want to make a few points, some of which reinforce
those made not only by my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond,
Yorks, but by Members in all parts of the House. First, the British
Government do have a role to
play. Although, in a classically British way, we often underestimate
ourselves and think that we perhaps do not have influence, we have
direct influence over most of our allies. We do have influence over the
United States of America, and it is important that, at times, behind
closed doors—if not always in public—we be frank and
honest with the Americans. Indeed, we can go to places in the middle
east that the Americans cannot, which is a very important
point.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks said, this crisis has again proved—as virtually every crisis in the middle east does—the lack of any cohesion and direction on the part of the international community, particularly all the great powers of one kind or another. The point that I take from this debate is that, if we resolve the immediate conflict in the next two or three weeks—perhaps we will—the danger is that, once again, most of the major Governments outside the area will wash their hands, walk away and look at some other crisis. We cannot do that again, not only because of the immediate crisis involving Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas, but because, as many Members said, of the activities of Iran in particular, which is playing a very dangerous game. Iran is sponsoring terrorism that is aimed directly against many countries in the middle east, including Arab countries. Some of those activities have resulted in the death and injury of British military personnel, and we cannot walk away from that.
The Government must take the following courses of action. First, they must make certain that the period when military operations are given a chance is as short as possible. The Israelis have every right to protect themselves against terrorism and rocket and shell attacks but, as many hon. Members noted, they will be only too well aware that there can be no long-term military solution. The conflict can be resolved only by political means.
In addition, many hon. Members spoke about what is happening in Lebanon. My fear is that, although the Israelis have every right to root out the Hezbollah rockets, they might inflict so much damage that the state of Lebanon will be literally knocked out. If that happens, Israel will be in danger of losing the support of world opinion, which will render a political solution much more difficult to achieve.
Secondly, the Government must energise the international community. We are a member of the UN Security Council, and I look forward to hearing what actions Ministers propose to take there. Thirdly, as many hon. Members noted, there is the problem of getting humanitarian aid to Lebanon, the west bank and Gaza.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) and I spoke to the Lebanese ambassador earlier today, who said that the problem was not one of money but of getting aid to communities. He emphasised that, with 500,000 people crossing fields and walking along roads to get to Beirut, there is likely to be a civil disorder crisis in that city in the next two or three days. We look to the British Government, in particular, to take a lead on that.
Finally, I
believe that the House of Commons is justified in taking a view on this
crisis, and that the Government should not feel that it should not be
debated. Strong and genuine views have been expressed
on all sides of the House today, but mostly in a constructive manner.
This Government resemble the Government who faced a series of
international crises some 60 years ago. In the late 1930s, faced with
an even greater crisis than this, the British Prime Minister, Neville
Chamberlain, said that his Government were hoping for the best, but
preparing for the worst. This Government may have to do the
same.
5.47 pm
The Minister for the Middle East (Dr. Kim Howells): This has been a very good debate, albeit a very short one. It has been about the huge issues—matters of life and death—that at present affect the lives of thousands of British nationals and millions of Lebanese and Israelis, among others.
We heard the maiden speech of the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Davies), and I am sure that the whole House will join me in wishing him well.
Quite rightly, the debate focused on the grave situation in Lebanon and Israel, but many other topics of equal gravity were touched on. The hon. Members for Buckingham (John Bercow) and for Teignbridge (Richard Younger-Ross), and the right hon. and learned Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram), among others, reminded us about the other huge issues facing the world today, such as Tibet, Darfur, development aid, debt relief, AIDS, and Burma. Another matter raised in the debate was the argument for an international arms trade treaty—something that is very close to my own heart.
The hon. Member for Buckingham will know that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Trade summoned the Burmese ambassador to the Foreign Office—he has also written to Burma’s Foreign Minister for the same purpose—to express our concerns about a range of human rights issues, such as the large-scale abuses of ethnic groups, forced labour, restrictions to religious freedom, the use of sexual violence and the exploitation of children. My right hon. Friend also called for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi and all other political prisoners. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will wait for questions on Tuesday for his answer.
It is worth spending a moment on Darfur, which has been raised by a number of right hon. and hon. Members. The UK reaffirmed its pledge of £20 million for the African Union force for this financial year. That is out of a world pledge of £260 million. I am told that the amount pledged is likely to be more than enough to meet the force's short-term needs but we will continue to put pressure on others to contribute more.
We believe that the African Union force in Darfur needs to be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. The Sudanese Government have not agreed to that. Kofi Annan has said that he hopes to see a UN force in Darfur. The Security Council has taken a strong line. The African Union wants such a force and so do many leading African countries. We will continue to press the Sudanese Government to accept it and we call on others to do the same.
We have
taken the very good advice of the hon. Member for South Staffordshire
(Sir Patrick Cormack) and summoned the Iranian and Syrian ambassadors.
My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken directly to the
Prime Minister of Lebanon and the
Foreign Secretary of Israel, among others. It was good advice and we
were glad to take it.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Dr. Howells: No. I have little time, I am afraid.
I share the concerns expressed tonight about Lebanon and Israel. This Government are committed to helping to resolve the crisis. We want an immediate end to the violence and our priority remains to create conditions that will allow a credible and sustainable ceasefire. I assure the House that my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary and I are working very hard to achieve that. I will be visiting the area immediately. In fact I would have been there now if it were not for this debate. I hope to speak to a number of leading regional players in the surrounding capitals as well as in the immediate area to try to help to find a way through the crisis.
We have supported the efforts of the UN team and of the EU high representative, Javier Solana, by providing them with transport and logistical assistance on the ground. As I made clear from the Dispatch Box on Monday, we have repeatedly urged the Israelis in the strongest terms to act proportionately, to conform to international law, and to avoid the appalling civilian death and suffering we are witnessing on our television screens. We expect no less from Israel and the world should demand no less from those who, for their own twisted reasons, supply Hezbollah with rockets, guns and finance.
We have called on Syria and Iran to stop their support for Hezbollah and to end their interference in Lebanese internal affairs, in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions 1559 and 1680. Syria and Iran will be judged on how they conduct themselves during this crisis.
Mr. Mohammad Sarwar (Glasgow, Central) (Lab): The first official Lebanese death toll confirms that 300 people have been killed, 1,000 wounded and 500,000 displaced. On the Israeli side, 29 people have been killed. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, says that Israeli and Hezbollah leaders may face war crimes charges over civilian casualties. How should the Government hold both parties to account?
Dr. Howells: I am sure that, if my hon. Friend had been here earlier, he would have heard this. My right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Clare Short) properly raised the issue. Louise Arbour is someone whom we have to take very seriously. This is not a one-sided dispute and the evils of the destruction of civilians, their homes and communities are by no means limited to one side. I have tried to call in a balanced way for a reasonable response and for a cessation of violence.
I said
earlier that Syria and Iran will be judged on how they conduct
themselves during the crisis. Key players in the middle east are among
those who will judge Syria and Iran. We have heard too little about
countries such as Egypt, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia,
which have broken ranks with the old ways of refusing to criticise the
actions of countries that behave in that way. They are extremely
concerned about this conflict. The right hon. Member for Richmond,
Yorks (Mr. Hague) and the right hon. and learned Member for
Devizes were right to argue that we should continue to use our great
historical network of diplomatic contacts in that region so that we can
act in concert to take the heat out of this terrible
conflict.
In the few moments that are left, let me turn to the question of the evacuation. It is extraordinarily important. As we speak, some 1,300 people are being evacuated on HMS Bulwark and HMS York. To answer the question asked by the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Stewart Hosie), they include families of British nationals who may not be British passport holders. They also include many of our friends from the Commonwealth and Europe. We needed their help when the tsunami took place; the reaction to this terrible disaster is a worldwide one, and we need every ally that we can find in situations such as this.
Dr. Starkey: I have raised with the Minister the case of my constituent Mr. Saleh, who is a Lebanese citizen with a British wife whose main home is here in Britain. He may not be able to be evacuated because he has not been able to get British citizenship. Will my hon. Friend take up his case for me?
Dr. Howells: If my hon. Friend will send me the details, we will certainly take a look at it.
So far, approximately 2,800 people are being evacuated. It is an enormous number. A further evacuation is planned by sea tomorrow. It has been an enormous exercise.
If the events of this last week or so have taught us anything, it ought to have taught us that we must never and can never retreat behind imaginary fortress walls around these islands. The enemies of democracy will always bring the fight to us, wherever and whenever they can. The first duty of any British Government is to defend the lives and liberties of our citizens here and across the world. That is why we must continue to maintain the most professional armed forces in the world and why it is vital that those brave men and women are directed by a democratically elected Government. It is why we must maintain the superb work undertaken in the world’s most difficult areas by our Department for International Development and why we must deploy and use to the best effect the great skills of those who staff our diplomatic missions abroad.
The sight of the Royal Navy’s grey funnels off the coast of Lebanon, whether they were seen directly by those who wished to be evacuated or indirectly on television by their loved ones around the world must have been one of the sweetest sights that they will ever see. All of us must pay enormous tribute to the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which supported it, and to all our armed forces who have taken part and will continue to take part in the operation. I am not sure that people have understood the danger in which they operated off the coast of Lebanon or the danger tothe helicopters that flew over Lebanon. This is an extremely difficult situation.
We are very worried, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, about British citizens who are trapped in difficult areas in the south of Lebanon. We must find ways of getting them out. We are working with our colleagues in Germany, the United Nations and other countries to mount convoys and try to get the agreement of all the parties to the dispute to secure safe passage for those trapped individuals to points of safety. We know that a United Nations ferry is going into Tyre in the south. We hope that we can get many of our citizens and nationals and their relations on to that boat.
The Government will try to live up to the challenge of using the superb professionalism among our armed forces and our diplomatic service to help the United Nations and the international community to bring peace to Lebanon and the wider middle east. That must be the message that goes forward from this debate tonight.
Jonathan Shaw (Chatham and Aylesford) (Lab): I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
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