Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-87)

MR CRAIG REEDIE CBE, MS SUE CAMPBELL CBE, MR DAVID MOORCROFT AND DAME TANNI GREY-THOMPSON

18 OCTOBER 2005

  Q80  Adam Price: You mentioned inclusion in the mainstream. What are sports governing bodies doing to make coaching courses accessible and inclusive for athletes with a disability?

  Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson: That has moved on an awful lot over the last few years. The picture across different sports is very different. In some sports it is technically easier to include disabled athletes. In a sport like swimming it is easier to include athletes with disabilities in terms of the way they train in the pool. A lot of governing bodies are now working very hard to make sure that the whole range of services that they offer, not just because of the DDA but because they want to be part of it, are completely inclusive. When you look at athletics, they are working on inclusive coaching programmes. In terms of the officials, there are quite a lot of disabled officials which is probably one of the easiest things to do. It is partly trying to attract disabled people to become coaches but also making sure the coaches who are currently working at a high level understand some of the different needs of disabled athletes. It is very positive to see that the governing bodies are taking that on and moving it forward because I think that is part of the key to success. The most important thing is you have someone who is a very well qualified coach and then the physiological adaptation is very minor. When you are talking about elite level athletes, what we have had in the past is a coach who is maybe not very qualified but is the mother or father or in some way related to a disabled athlete and that is how they get involved in coaching. What we have seen since Atlanta is that does not work. That is the most important thing if we are trying to develop Paralympics, getting highly qualified coaches. Some of the changes that are going on in terms of athletics in terms of inclusion are really positive and it is good to see them happening. I think a lot of sports have taken them on.

  Mr Moorcroft: Historically, athletics has not been the most inclusive of sports. There are not too many clubs in athletics where they make people feel comfortable or have the facilities to offer for children with disabilities, but that is changing. As Tanni said, through coaching education we have specific modules for athletes with disability. There is an award scheme that we have that has adaptations at every level for athletes with disabilities, as with the new school curriculum programme. One of the crucial things, I think, is looking for the similarities. As a distance athlete, Tanni is an endurance athlete and has the same physical needs, aerobic, anaerobic, as a Kelly Holmes or a Paula Radcliffe, so there is a correlation there. We have athletes who are amputees or who are visually impaired who are runners and they have exactly the same coaching needs with minor adaptations to those who are able bodied. As much as possible, and Tanni and some other colleagues are helping, it is helping able bodied athletes out probably as much, in fact, more than the other way round. Part of the challenge of 2012 from an organisational point of view is to create a seamless Olympics/Paralympics all within sport and all of the Olympic sports are trying to do the same thing.

  Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson: I think it is partly about using 2012 to break down the barriers that are associated with disability. There has been a big sea change in various generations. People of my parents' generation had a very different view of disability than some of the youngsters who watched Paralympic coverage in Athens. For me, the Paralympics almost has two messages. One is about a link with sport and someone winning and everyone else not winning, but it is also about promoting inclusion and changing young people's attitudes. I think one of the great advantages with the time slots that the Paralympics were shown on TV was you got into that generation of young people, kids who were coming home from school watching disabled people competing and had a different view of disability so they are not going to grow up dragging their kids away from someone with a disability because they might catch something, they just grow up seeing disability as something that is naturally part of society. It is about using 2012 in that way and the development of athletes to make society more inclusive so you have a group of young disabled people growing up also believing that they do have a right to education, they have a right to higher education, a right to work, a right to contribute, not just that they will be there on benefits, which is how a lot of people of my generation grew up because that was how they were treated.

  Q81  Chairman: Are there any governing bodies that you think could be doing more than they are?

  Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson: Probably every governing body could be doing more, but in different ways. I think the pattern amongst governing bodies is very difficult. It is difficult between the Olympic and Paralympic split because for many governing bodies the Olympics will naturally have a little bit more priority and within the Paralympics side it is accepting that but making sure that we ensure the services that are delivered are of a high standard. Sometimes there is a difference between being equal and being equitable. There is no reason why the level of service cannot be as high, even though in my lifetime an Olympic medal will always be seen as something that has higher value than a Paralympic medal.

  Q82  Mr Hall: Tanni, you mentioned the broadcast coverage of the Athens Paralympics but are you happy about the arrangements for the Paralympics in 2012 and the broadcast coverage that we will see there? There were some really fantastic events at Athens that did not get any broadcast coverage at all in the Paralympics.

  Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson: It is difficult because if you look back to Seoul we had a half an hour programme a few weeks after the Games, which mostly featured some Irish bocce players rather than any British athletes at all. Barcelona was a big sea change in terms of the coverage but it was only through Sydney that there was daily coverage and I think that will improve and Beijing will be another step on. I am not sure we are ever going to get the same number of hours on TV as the Olympics but I think we can do better. What a lot of the media in this country have done, certainly between Sydney and today, is looked at covering more events in between Games, so you would only ever really see Paralympics on TV and not much for another four years but certainly the BBC and the print media are very good at increasing that amount of coverage and it has to be drip fed through each of the years to inspire the next generation of young people. I think the coverage will improve and by 2012 it will be fantastic.

  Q83  Mr Hall: Can I ask you a completely different question. For athletes who have got disabilities technology is very important. Are we doing enough in the technology field to make sure that our Paralympic athletes have got the very best equipment for when we get to 2012?

  Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson: I think so. Certainly athletes who are Lottery funded get access to the equipment that they need, and that is funded and supported through the coaching structure, so it is not just an athlete saying, "I fancy that because it looks nice", they have to justify the reason why they need it. Our co-ordination of development of technology has got a lot better in the last couple of years, so instead of seeing other countries as the place to go and buy technology we are spending more time developing it here. That is very positive. Certainly in terms of racing chair technology we are doing a lot more in the UK to make sure we can really push the boundaries and push the rules as far as they are allowed. One of the advantages we have is we have some money to actually buy decent equipment and I think where we are going to see big changes is in some of the African countries and China who did not have access to that equipment who will come through and be able to develop things. That is a challenge for us.

  Ms Campbell: It is a challenge for both the Paralympics and Olympics. In certain sports, the rowing, the cycling and the sailing, that technological edge is really critical. We are now putting quite a lot of money into working with one of the research councils to look at real innovation in technology, in clothing, in equipment, and particularly looking at those things that will give us those winning margins that are now so tiny, just so small.

  Q84  Mr Hall: The eights in the rowing.

  Ms Campbell: Absolutely, it is that whole technological area. I think that is one of the really exciting things where sport and business can work together effectively.

  Mr Reedie: Chairman, for the purposes of clarity, the host broadcaster for the Olympic Games in 2012 will almost certainly be a company called Olympic Broadcasting Services which is owned and run by the IOC. The Paralympic Games will need their own host broadcaster, and I am absolutely convinced that the BBC will provide those host broadcaster services. Maybe you could seek confirmation of that at some future date.

  Chairman: We will make a point of doing so.

  Q85  Paul Farrelly: In 2012 after we have topped the Paralympics table and seen off Germany, France and Italy, what will happen to all of these wonderful facilities that we have built and the great complex in the Lea Valley? Should they remain in public ownership? David, I think your organisation has floated the idea of an Olympic Trust.

  Mr Moorcroft: The sooner the issue of what entity will manage those facilities is resolved the better. We have already begun discussions with LOCOG in terms of the athletics facilities both for the Games and beyond the Games. When you talk about Olympic Institutes and you know the passion that Seb and others have, I believe it should be held in trust and you will get the best of both worlds in terms of the quality of facilities available for the Games but also the community and elite legacy that is left beyond the Games. Our hope and belief is that a lot of lessons will be learned from the Sydney experience and the Athens experience and a trust will be created post-2012 and those facilities will live for many years beyond it.

  Q86  Paul Farrelly: A very early lead is going to be taken on this, is it not, because we are setting up the Olympic Delivery Authority and there is talk already of the sorts of Private Finance Initiative contracts that might be signed. These are long and complicated contracts. We have got to take a decision pretty quickly and take a view on how we want to see things develop after 2012.

  Mr Reedie: As far as the legacy use of the funding after the Games is concerned, each of the facilities that will stay in the Olympic Park has a 25 year business plan already negotiated and agreed. If they require a subsidy, can I suggest when Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, comes to see you, you address your comments to him there. Can I also stress from the previous evidence you took from Seb and Keith that as you go through this exercise you bear in mind that there are two very distinct budgets involved here. One is the Organising Committee budget, and that is the bit that Seb and Keith have to look after, and the second is the construction budget, the infrastructure, the stadiums and all the rest of it. In fact, on the running costs of the Montreal Games they made a profit but what did not make a profit were the cost over-runs on facilities and the way they accounted for them in Canada at the time, which is why there has been a long pay-off period. I do urge you to keep that absolutely at the back of your mind as you question the Organising Committee over the next few years.

  Ms Campbell: Equally, it would be good to remind all of us on a regular basis of the other legacy, which is the legacy for people in sport. It would be very easy to focus on the legacy of the facilities, and that is absolutely right and proper, but we must keep being reminded in sport that this must be much more than a fantastic show in town. This has got to be a transformation of the way sport operates in this country and a chance for us to change for both Olympians and Paralympians, young people, whatever their background and ability, a chance to take part in sport and reach the highest level they want to reach. We have got a big job to do and I think you need to keep asking what is the legacy for people beyond the Olympics, not just the facilities. You need to keep making us address that issue.

  Q87  Paul Farrelly: I think we should be asking that right now. The playing fields I knocked around on as a kid are now housing estates. There are London boroughs bordering on the Lea Valley, such as Hackney, where kids barely see a blade of glass to play on. Should we be marking the award of the Olympics with an Olympic moratorium on the sale of any more playing fields, for starters?

  Ms Campbell: I am not going to go into the playing field debate here, you have had more Select Committees on that than I have ever attended. What I can say to you is the investment in school sports that is now happening is making a difference and that is being researched independently. We are seeing significant increases in both primary and secondary age youngsters playing sport both within the curriculum and outside school. Dave was right, the next big thing is we have to connect those effectively into club sport, we have to provide the coaching that allows those kids to progress and then we have to marry it into that elite system so we have got a systemic way of any youngster, no matter where they start from, finding the ladder to success and not groping in the dark for it, which to a large extent is how most of our elite athletes have found their way in many sports.

  Mr Moorcroft: When I was competing in the 1970s we were fairly embarrassed about the quality of facilities at all levels in the UK. One of the great pluses of Lottery funding, rightly or wrongly, the decision to invest mainly in capital in the first few years, was the huge increase in the quality of indoor facilities across the UK—putting the playing field debate to one side. That creates a really good platform. As Sue said, there is the physical legacy of London that is crucial but there is also a physical and people's legacy around the UK that is of equal significance. Again, one of our collective challenges is to make sure there is the right balance there.

  Chairman: If there are no more questions, since we have kept our friends from tourism waiting, can I thank you very much indeed for your time this morning.





 
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