Examination of Witnesses (Questions 360-376)
DIGITAL UK
13 DECEMBER 2005
Q360 Mr Evans: The Financial Times
on 19 September had a piece which said that the DCMS gave estimates
of between £80 and £570 being the top end. Can you imagine
some households actually paying that sort of money?
Mr Ennals: I can only imagine
households who have a very high number of televisions and ancillary
digital equipment who replace it all and also need an aerial.
What I am saying is we support the work that Ofcom did and we
believe the average household cost will be between £90 and
£100.
Q361 Mr Evans: Every TV can be switched
over, can it? There is technical kit available. It will cost you
a bit more, I assume, if you have got an older television without
a scart lead but you can switch TVs without scart leads over?
Mr Hughes: Correct.
Q362 Mr Evans: They will cost you
a bit more.
Mr Hughes: Yes.
Q363 Mr Evans: There is no fear that
there is going to be a TV mountain building up after 2008 or 2009,
they can all be switched. That is fair enough. Will your marketing
campaigns be giving advice to people about how much it is going
to cost? You talked about Border where you said there is an 80%
awareness. Have you talked to the stores, such as Dixons and other
stores, selling the set-top boxes? Are they selling well in the
Border region or are people waiting until a bit closer to the
date?
Mr Ennals: Once again, the research
would indicate 20-25% of people are planning to go digital in
the next 12 months who are not digital today. We were in Border
just last week and the retail comment was that digital sales are
very strong at the moment. What a number of the independent retailers
are doing, and we encourage and support this, is holding digital
clinics whereby they have the demonstrations in their stores and
answer people's questions. We are supporting the development of
these in the other regions.
Q364 Alan Keen: Before I come on
to ask what I hope are intelligent questions, because Paul worries
about the aerials so much, I had the aerial man round yesterday
and my self-esteem has taken a terrible blow because you have
told me that the average house has two and a half televisions
and I have got three but only two of them work and the free box
does not work at all. I had the aerial man round and he must have
worked in a repair garage because he looked up and said, "The
chimney is too big, I have got to go away and give you a quote"
and I only live in a tiny terraced house. I will give you the
next instalment when the Secretary of State comes. Will you make
public before the switchover happens the progress of the number
of people taking digital TV before they are forced to? Will you
be making those figures public?
Mr Ennals: Yes, we will. As part
of our programme, one of the nine work streams, we have a work
stream which is about auditing and measurement and on a monthly
basis we will be tracking awareness, understanding, willingness
to convert and actual conversion, not just of the primary TV but
secondary TVs. They will be made available to all stakeholders
on a monthly basis and we would anticipate putting that in the
public domain on a quarterly basis.
Q365 Alan Keen: How did you decide
on a month for the switch-off period in one region?
Mr Hughes: Here you are presumably
talking about the period between switching off BBC2 and the other
analogue channels?
Q366 Alan Keen: Yes.
Mr Hughes: Our working model at
the moment is four weeks or a month. We had a long time to look
at this. It is a question at the moment of trying to balance our
understanding of two or three things. One of the primary requirements,
obviously, is to make sure that we can deliver the total switchover
programme within the overall timetable. As others have already
said, the public service broadcasters have got a deadline to complete
it by 2012, therefore we had to construct a programme that met
that end requirement. Within that, there is a question of finding
the balance between giving people a reasonable amount of time
to take action if they need to once they see the impact of BBC
2 going off and the danger that period might be too long because
there is a natural instinct to leave things to the last minute.
We need to give people a fairly sharp and focused period of time
in which to take action. At the moment our analysis has brought
us down to using the working assumption that four weeks is about
right. Certainly working with the transmission operators, Arqiva
and NGW, who I think you are going to see at a subsequent session,
they are very concerned that if the period is a great deal longer
than four weeks they would not be able to deliver the programme
within the overall timetable because it is their resources that
have to be deployed to manage the various phases of the transitions.
That is where we have got to, where we are at the moment.
Q367 Alan Keen: What about the multiple
domestic units, blocks of flats in city centres, both the ones
which are occupied by care homes but also the ones that are along
the Thames in Central London, and there seem to be hundreds of
them nowadays? Obviously not everybody can get satellite, they
must rely on cable, I presume. That is part of the conversion.
What is involved in that?
Mr Ennals: If I can just kick
off on the overall programming. I think it was referenced in the
Ofcom conversation that multiple dwelling units are a very important
focus for this overall programme. We believe that up to 20% of
the population reside in such dwellings. We have a work stream
focusing specifically on addressing this. If you break it down,
you can see probably 60% of MDUs is social housing, and Government
are taking a lead on this. There are regular audits underway at
the moment on public sector readiness, so we will get a clear
sight of that. Our judgment is probably about 50% of MDUs will
be ready by 2008 but we need to accelerate the readiness and the
progress of all authorities and MDUs. In addition, we need to
make absolutely sure that the interests of the vulnerable within
MDUs are taken care of. In the broader property sector—you
mentioned care homes and hospitals—they are a key focus
for our programme of work. In terms of the deliverability system-wise,
it is something we are working closely with the CAI and Tim Jenks
on in terms of making sure there are sufficient numbers of expert
installers. I talked about the RDI scheme. There is a higher level,
a Level 3 NVQ, for people who can install in multi-dwelling units
the master aerial system. Once again, we do need to increase the
number of expert fitters but we are comfortable and confident
that the progress we need is being made.
Q368 Alan Keen: It is obvious that
we have some concerns about who is in charge and different aspects
of it. The part that concerns me—I have some experience
in the private sector dealing with problems—is the technical
side of the switchover must occupy your minds more than anything
else, it would be a tragedy if technically it did not work when
you wanted it to, but is there someone particularly in charge
of getting as many people over in addition to the market which
has been very successful, with good reason? Is there anybody in
charge of getting at those people who are going to be the stubborn
ones or the ones who just do not understand?
Mr Ennals: By default that falls
to me and my organisation. The way we organise our work is Mike
is in charge of the broadcast infrastructure, making sure that
is delivered and, speaking on behalf of Mike, I know he is confident
we are on track to do that. Secondly, there is a programme of
works with retailers, manufacturers and the rest of industry co-ordinating
the activity there. The third mainstream of work is communicating
and helping people and to that end we will set targets for each
region in terms of making sure people are aware, they understand
and are converting. We have a programme of work within that to
make sure anyone who needs additional time, additional information,
more assistance, gets it. In answer to the question from Rosemary,
we are working with local communities, charities and councils
to make sure that people who need a bit more help get it at a
local level.
Alan Keen: Thank you very much. Mike
looks very well on it!
Q369 Paul Farrelly: I just want to
come back in on this switch-off interval because, apart from making
sure that Alan and people like my Mum do not get ripped off on
their aerials, as this inquiry has unfolded this has become the
crucial thing for me out of self-preservation, because if there
are riots in the streets, or petitions being drawn up, or letter
writing campaigns, they tend to come through our rather meagrely
staffed doors. In Berlin, we heard that the regulators were very
happy with the six month period. Berlin was one area, other areas
around Germany have different characteristics, but in general
the regulators, breathing a sigh of relief no doubt, were very
content with the six months. The broadcasters were very happy
with what had happened in Berlin but, from their point of view,
they wished it had been quicker because the costs of simulcasting
affected them, so they have got a sectoral interest in that. I
would like to hear some more evidence, and perhaps you can give
the Committee what you have received from various people, to back
up the one month interval. From what we have seen in Berlin it
seems there is potential for our being inundated by angry constituents
because that month seems very, very short indeed.
Mr Cox: Berlin was the first and,
therefore, in a sense they were starting from scratch and all
the information about the thing had to happen within that period.
This is a seven year programme from now. People will be very,
very bored in 2011 with our advertising, I predict—very
bored. It is just not comparable in that sense to use Berlin as
an example. It is not just us, the broadcasters have an obligation
on-air, on television, to say, so anybody watching the signal
will know it affects them, "Your television will be switched,
it will happen on this date and this is what you must do".
That is over and above everything that we are doing. That will
be particularly intense in the six months before the switchover.
It is a build up. We will be flooding people with knowledge both
regionally and locally, every channel you watch in analogue will
be telling you this is going to happen. I do not think, in that
sense, a month is unreasonable. It is the last resort. We would
hope everybody would have got the kit by the time BBC 2 switches
but we are allowing that gap to deal with those who have not or
where there are problems with the way it works.
Q370 Paul Farrelly: Looking at the
schedule, I have not concentrated on the Italian experience so
far but that seems to be the crucial country in the run-up when
we should be looking at—
Mr Ennals: Sorry, which country
was that?
Q371 Paul Farrelly: Italy, which
is the next to go.
Mr Ennals: I think it is worth
looking at each individual country because there are different
lessons to be learned. As you are aware, and I know you went to
Berlin and have looked elsewhere, the market conditions are very,
very different indeed. What characterises the UK digital market
is the fact we have got 70% penetration and above now, we have
a very strong brand of digital via your aerial in Freeview, we
have a very clear Government policy and timetable, we have an
independent co-ordination body in place to deliver this that is
properly represented, and we have a very affordable and fully
available set-top box and digital equipment. You cannot see those
conditions anywhere else in Europe. We asked a number of commentators,
including Enders Analysis, to research in each individual country
and to do an assessment of readiness and their conclusion was
2012 in the UK is very, very achievable indeed. Italy is totally
different because you have only got penetration at 43% and the
characteristics of the market are very, very different. If you
look at Nordic countries, if you look at Germany, we are very
confident that they will deliver their switchover by 2008.
Q372 Paul Farrelly: I am talking
about your four week period when people start realising when these
channels start being switched off.
Mr Ennals: I just reiterate what
Barry said. I think the real difference for us is we have got
three to seven years to tell people about it, so people have plenty
of time to prepare and plan, plenty of time for us to get information
and assistance to them. Four weeks is a sort of grace period and
that is entirely sufficient.
Mr Hughes: In the lead-up to BBC
2 being switched off, being the first analogue channel that will
go, there will be captions on BBC 2 itself telling people that
the channel is about to go. If we use a similar pattern to that
which we used when we had to do some channel changes in the original
DTT rollout we will start with the captions being there off-peak
and fairly discreet; as we get closer and closer they will be
there permanently and will become bigger and bigger until effectively
they obliterate the picture and that does encourage people to
take some action. Nevertheless, there are going to be some people
who need a bit more time, which is why, in advance of knowing
what they were doing in Berlin, we designed in what we are now
calling this grace period of the four weeks.
Q373 Paul Farrelly: Is there an entire
consensus on this four week period on your board and the constituencies
you are engaging with, or are there different sections? For example,
if I can take the example of the retailers looking ahead at possible
hitches in the supply of these decoders in the massive Granada
area where more than four weeks might conceivably be more comfortable
for them to cope with any unexpected problems for the last minute
buyers.
Mr Cox: I did hear a bit of that
session and we will see how we will develop. There are milestones
between now and switchover to make sure that people are switching.
In response to your question, DCMS would have liked it to have
been longer and I think some of the consumer groups would have
liked it to have been longer. They have accepted that this is
the right period and we will have to demonstrate that it works
in practice. We think it will but we will have to demonstrate
it.
Paul Farrelly: If we could have the evidence
that you have received on this it would be very helpful to our
inquiry.
Q374 Chairman: So even though the
actual period is relatively short, you are going to make analogue
almost unwatchable over time—by putting something like "Haven't
you got digital yet, you cretin" in enormous letters across
the screen.
Mr Cox: Are you available as a
consultant?
Mr Hughes: As long as we can quote
you, Chairman.
Q375 Chairman: The last question
I want to ask you very quickly is this. When we talked to the
consumer groups particularly we asked what is their one message
above all, and they said, "For goodness sake, mobilise the
voluntary sector because without them this is not going to be
done". Particularly Colette Bowe raised her concern about
the people who are relatively isolated, they may not necessarily
be on low incomes but they do not have grandchildren or friends
or friendly TV repairers who are going to pop round and sort it
out for them. How engaged are you with all the voluntary groups
and how big is your army going to be to get out there and help
them?
Mr Ennals: We discussed these
issues with Colette and we heard loud and clear what she had to
say and we support that. Whilst I believe that the targeted help
scheme is addressing the right people in terms of 75-plus, severely
disabled and registered blind, there will be other people, either
through age, through literacy issues or potentially disabled issues,
who may need some help. That position is more acute where they
do not have a network of family and friends. We have learned from
all the tests we have done elsewhere that the support of family
and friends is absolutely critical. What we are doing with Colette
and the support of the Ofcom Consumer Panel is putting a small
scale test in the Border region together for the spring working
with people like the councils, the charitable organisations and
potentially either CVS or Experience Corps, one of the voluntary
organisations, to see what we can do to mobilise people on a free
basis but we will support them with training, with materials,
and we will monitor the work that is being done to see what we
can do to mobilise the voluntary sector to help people who are
socially isolated. It is something that needs serious attention.
Q376 Mr Evans: Nobody is going to
be left behind then?
Mr Ennals: That is very much the
motto of this programme, "No household will be left behind,
every household will get digital television after switchover".
Chairman: On that note, thank you very
much.
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