Examination of Witnesses (Questions 77
- 79)
TUESDAY 14 MARCH 2006
MR JAMES
HERVEY-BATHURST,
MR NICK
WAY, MS
FRANCES GARNHAM,
MR DAVID
FURSDON AND
MR JONATHAN
THOMPSON
Q77 Chairman: We now move on to the
Country Land and Business Association and the Historic Houses
Association. Your two organisations represent the private owners
of heritage buildings and clearly since a large proportion of
our heritage is still in private ownership you represent an extremely
important component. Can I welcome James Hervey-Bathurst, the
Chairman of the HHA, Nick Way and Frances Garnham, and David Fursdon,
President of the CLA and Jonathan Thompson. Can I first of all
ask you to follow the National Trust in setting out how you see
government's role and what priority is attached by government
to preservation of the historic environment. The CLA were quite
critical in their evidence in saying that the government sometimes
sees the historic environment as a burden rather than an opportunity.
Perhaps you would like to elaborate on that.
Mr Fursdon: Thank you. We start
from the basis that historically there is some sort of an understanding
that in return for the commitment of private owners to look after
the heritage, particularly as enforced by listed building legislation,
there is a two-way process and that the private owner in doing
that will be given some help and guidance in how they can achieve
that. A lot of the discussions you have just had have been on
the subject of the role of support, whether through English Heritage
or through DCMS, in helping bring about that aim. One of the things
that we have seen is perhaps a decreasing part of that partnership
which enables grant aid to come forward or whatever else. I think
we are now reaching a stage where it is an interesting question
as to how the government can help in that process. There are positive
signs. The Heritage Protection Review in particular is positive.
I sincerely hope that that will come through and see the light
of day because that does start to show a slightly different relationship
in that whole process.
Mr Hervey-Bathurst: From the point
of view of the Historic Houses Association, what we expect the
government to do is very much what they are doing at the moment.
They regulate us, they control us in the sense of what we do to
our buildings, how we look after them and that is linked partly
to the tax concessions that we have for listed buildings of outstanding
national importance and partly, as in the past, to set a rate
as a condition for grants. We see the government role as helping
us look after our properties partly by control and guidance and
partly by financial means. The second thing that we very much
like the government to do is to work with us in terms of broadening
the appeal of our properties to the public who visit them, so
that is on education and access. That is probably what we expect
them to do.
Q78 Chairman: Do you feel that the
Government is favourably disposed towards private owners of historic
buildings?
Mr Hervey-Bathurst: I think generally,
since 1945, there has been recognition that private owners have
a role to play in preserving heritage and that the heritage, despite
its fluctuations in popularity in government, is important. The
record over the last 50 years has been quite good in helping stop
the demolition of houses, keeping owners in occupation, and I
think it is a question, as has been said earlier, of our sector,
and through the DCMS, making our case stronger within government
for the things that we want. It is not entirely strongly supported,
but, on the other hand, it is not perhaps as bad as it was some
time ago when houses were being lost.
Q79 Chairman: We heard from the National
Trust that DCMS may not be particularly strong in Whitehall and
heritage may not rank particularly high in DCMS. Would you feel
that perhaps the interests of private owners would come low down
on the list within the heritage part of DCMS?
Mr Hervey-Bathurst: We have to
look at the evidence. The evidence is that private owners look
for funding to support long-term repairs which, for various reasons,
have been neglected in the past. The funding comes largely from
English Heritage in England. Therefore, if DCMS is not able to
fund English Heritage, then proper grants do not come through;
so we draw the conclusion that we are not as high in the pecking
order as we would like to be.
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