Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-87)
MS SALLY
HUNT, DR
STEVE WHARTON,
MR ROGER
KLINE AND
MR ANDY
PIKE
17 MAY 2006
Q80 Mr Marsden: So you would not
rule it out?
Ms Hunt: Absolutely not. We have
been very appreciative of their help to date.
Q81 Chairman: Can I finish this session
by asking you two questions. We have had a long-term interest
in this subject, as you know, and we have sometimes teased you,
Sally, about being the least effective union in the history of
trade unions.
Ms Hunt: I now seem to be beyond
the RMT though!
Q82 Chairman: Yes, I got that remark!
In a sense, are you actually standing up in these negotiations
for these people that the Committee has mentioned, the people
coming into the profession, the people on low pay, fixed contracts,
who see more and more an extended period before they actually
get on to the regular payroll?
Ms Hunt: I have a very, very old
fashioned view of the job of a trade union and it is to actively
represent the mandated view of its members, and you and I, Chairman,
have had some rather robust discussions as to the views I was
representing over "top-up fees or else". What is important
for everyone to understand is that I represent a group of members,
as do Natfhe, who have we think hit every single benchmark asked
of them, not just last year but for decades. They have delivered
against the economy, they have delivered against culture, they
have delivered in every sense you could ask of them. As you say,
for that they have seen their comparator pay go down, they have
seen their job security go down, they have seen the respect they
are paid by their employers go down, and this time I think they
have drawn a line. This time they have said, "We actually
are willing to show quite how effective we are able to be and
how angry we are, and unless we get a resolution which starts
building back that respect this situation is going to go on and
there is a very real prospect that our country is going to suddenly
understand how much higher education is at the centre of everything
we do." So we desperately hope we will get a response. What
I find most distressing about this is when you see professionals
put into a situation like this, reasonable people put into a thoroughly
unreasonable situation, that is when you have to call into question
everything you believe about good employee relations, everything
you get told to you about partnership, because if you cannot have
partnership with these highly articulate, highly intelligent,
highly committed group of staff and they are taking this action,
that tells you quite how bad the industrial relations have got
in the last few years.
Q83 Chairman: That is a passionate
appeal but some people out there are saying that a bit of this
is about flexing your muscles—
Ms Hunt: Yes, I heard you this
morning.
Q84 Chairman: The two of you jostling
for position. It is what people are saying. Is a bit of this that
you have to look macho because you are going to be merging as
unions?
Ms Hunt: I wear high heels, Chairman,
I do not have any desire to look macho, I have no need to look
macho.
Q85 Chairman: Sally, I am not talking
about personalities, I am talking about the two unions merging.
Is there some macho culture that you want to be seen to be a tougher
union than Natfhe?
Ms Hunt: Why would we want to
do that?
Q86 Chairman: I do not know. It is
what the press are saying. Is there any element of this in this,
Roger, from your point of view?
Mr Kline: No, I do not think so.
This is very much a member-driven exercise. The last day that
Natfhe took industrial action on a national scale was the day
that Margaret Thatcher resigned. We may have a tough reputation
but we are also pretty good at striking deals. You asked a specific
question about hourly paid, new entrants to the profession, and
we have seen that in the last couple of years as a big priority
for us and we put a lot of effort into the fixed term regulations.
So from our point of view as a union this is not about macho posturing
and I do not believe it is for the AUT either. It is a member-driven
exercise using the opportunity that for the first time for a very
long time there is a substantial amount of extra funding in the
sector and our members are saying, "We are entitled to some
reasonable share of that to claw back the slippage we have suffered."
Q87 Chairman: I am sorry but we are
out of time. Thank you. You represent the brightest people in
our country and I hope you can all go away and get a resolution
of this dispute.
Mr Kline: Thank you very much.
Ms Hunt: Thank you.
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