Select Committee on Education and Skills Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 300-302)

DR JOHN BRENNAN, MS PAULINE WATERHOUSE, MR ALAN TUCKETT AND MR COLIN FLINT

28 NOVEMBER 2005

  Q300  Mr Chaytor: You are concerned about increasing competition and proliferation of small sixth forms, and so on, but in the White Paper there is constant emphasis on the importance of collaboration, both between the trust schools and other schools. Do you think it is a workable model for the 16-19 phase to have pupils attached to one institution, but spend part of their week travelling around between three or four different institutions?

  Dr Brennan: I think there are a number of different issues which that question throws up. Some of them are issues of practicality, simply that movement of pupils between sites, and so on, raises all sorts of issues about timetabling, transport, and so on, which have got to be solved at the local level. Some of them may be soluble and some may be insoluble. I think a lot of work needs to be done to try and realise that. The extent of which they are soluble depends in part on the framework within which they are placed. If, for example, your funding framework is to say to schools, "You have money and you can buy or provision in other institutions", then all of history suggests that it is quite difficult for schools to go down that road because they find it difficult to realise savings as a result of moving individual pupils out of classes, and so on, and therefore it becomes a major inhibitor. On the other hand, if your funding model is such that you have a ring-fenced pot of money which is there to support the development of this alternative curriculum offer for that group of young people, and that can be accessed by the partnership of institutions who are providing that, then you may create the right incentives and the right support to deliver that. A lot depends upon the mechanisms which you put in place around all of this. If we can get the mechanisms right, then I think you can solve a lot of those practical problems.

  Q301  Chairman: Pauline, would you like to come back to any of this on the White Paper?

  Ms Waterhouse: I was thinking about the very first point that David made a moment ago, which was what colleges feel is the best thing in the 14-19 White Paper. I would say in both of the recent White Papers on 14-19 education, I really welcome the emphasis that has been placed on functional literacy and numeracy and the real drive and will there appears to be to start to address those literacy and numeracy development needs of young people because, for myself, in the days when I was a teacher, before I went into management, what I would say is one of the key reasons why it was sometimes difficult to ensure young people passed their vocational qualification was because of the very, very real issues of literacy and numeracy skills deficits. I think that is one of the key reasons behind people failing Level 2, Level 3 qualifications and, as we know, this then goes on to be a problem in the adult workforce as well. I think the need to address that, and the will that was there in the White Paper to do so, is very encouraging.

  Q302  Chairman: Colin, you have had some strong opinions today. With all your experience, what do you think of the White Paper?

  Mr Flint: My worry is an old worry, really. When I was working in the local authority in Solihull, we had a very good programme with local schools of link courses, which was funded by the local authority. It worked pretty well, except that schools did tend to choose the young people that they sent to colleges, and I fear that there may still be some of that even in the new arrangement and that it is going to perpetuate that academic vocational design. I am all in favour of good quality vocational opportunities being made available to young people, but I think they ought to be made available to all young people, not just those that particular schools decide will benefit from them, because there are dangers in that decision-making process.

  Mr Tuckett: I wanted to talk about the parental involvement issue which the White Paper addresses and the challenges that presents. You can see how well it will work in areas where there are lots of articulate parents who are already engaged with all kinds of arenas of the way our world works. For the least engaged parents, I miss the focus on how you would support them to be effectively taking up the kinds of challenges Government poses for parents here and with that a lack of linkage, as it were, to extended schools, to community schooling into the role adults have in the support of young people's achievements. Related to that, a kind of worry that not giving the local authority enough powers to ensure that the plurality of purposes we have for schooling in our communities can be secured and not just those which individual groups of governors and parents recognise for themselves.

  Chairman: We are out of time. Can I thank Pauline, Colin, Alan and John for appearing before the Committee today. You have been a difficult bunch to manage, I am afraid, because you are so knowledgeable and it is so interesting to listen to your answers, but it certainly honed up my chairing skills. We appreciate it very much, thank you.





 
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