Examination of Witnesses (Questions 254-259)
MR ELLIOT
MORLEY, MP, MR
BOB ANDREW,
MR ANDREW
SOPER AND
MR JOHN
HUDSON
8 NOVEMBER 2005
Q254 Chairman: Can I welcome you all
to our Sub-Committee this afternoon. We do understand, Minister,
that you have to go at 3.45.
Mr Morley: I think, for the importance
of this Committee, we can stretch it a bit longer if we need to.
Q255 Chairman: In that case, we are
delighted, because we understood that the officials would continue
if you had to leave. With no more ado, can I formally welcome
you to the Committee. We are very pleased that we have three different
Departments represented here. Obviously, having a joined-up approach
and having a joint memorandum to our Committee is really important.
What we wanted to do by way of introduction was perhaps for you
just to set out for us the different departmental roles with regard
to this important issue and how you have recently been taking
the agenda further forward.
Mr Morley: I should start by saying
I am very glad to be joined, as you say, by officials from DFID,
Defra, FCO and also our Proforest consultant as well, who sits
on the Central Point of Expertise in Timber. In relation to the
G8, I think that the outcome of that has been a very positive
one, in the sense that, as you know, the Prime Minister made the
twin themes of our G8 climate change and aid to Africa. On aid
to Africa, I think I can say in all honesty it has been an enormous
success, where the UK has been seen to have given a significant
lead in terms of debt restructuring, boosting aid, and also in
that lead pulling together NGOs, civil society, different organisations,
businesses, in terms of engaging with the agenda both of aid and
of climate change. On the issue of forestry, which we are discussing,
we did host the first ever Joint Environment and Development Ministerial
under the G8, and from there came an extremely positive statement
on illegal logging that was signed up to by Russia, the United
States, of course, the G8 countries, and Japan, all of whom are
significant importers and, in the case of Russia, a significant
producer of timber. As you know, from that G8 Ministerial, Russia
stated then it was going to host a meeting this autumn in St Petersburg
to take forward the whole issue of illegal logging and FLEGT,
and that is going ahead. The process on climate change was also
very positive in relation to the outcome of Gleneagles. Perhaps
more importantly, the Gleneagles dialogue, of which we have just
had the first meeting on 1 November at Lancaster House, which
included the G8 and the plus-five group of the big emerging nations,
and it was an opportunity for an informal discussion, without
pressure on countries to sign up to a particular deal. That is
not the function of G8. In terms of internationally binding agreements,
the venue for that, quite rightly, is the UN organisation. The
G8 is not in competition with the UN but I think it has been very
successful in bringing countries together, in finding areas of
common ground in all these areas, of illegal logging, aid and
climate change, and building consensus which can then feed into
the international agreements, whether through the FLEGT process
or the UNCCC process, for the future. I think we can say at this
stage—it is not over yet—that so far we have had a
very successful G8 presidency.
Q256 Chairman: What we want to try
and get down to, apart from the rhetoric which comes out of it,
is how that is translated into actual action on the ground. For
example, you mentioned St Petersburg, all these meetings—are
they just a talking shop? You have not really mentioned the action
that is coming out of this.
Mr Morley: What has come out of
the G8 so far is the agreements on aid, the St Petersburg agreement
. . .
Q257 Chairman: In respect of the
agreements on aid, is that linked to sustainable forestry procurement?
How are those statements on aid actually linked to forestry, the
issues of illegal logging, sustainable timber?
Mr Morley: The statements on aid
do focus on direct aid through development. However, through the
development agenda, there is no contradiction between such things
as sustainable forestry management and poverty alleviation. I
know that DFID has done a lot of work in this area, working with
communities who depend on forest environments. In fact, there
is a very high number of people who are dependent on forest ecologies
in relation to their own living. That is part of the development
agency. On the climate change issue, what has come out of that
in terms of trying to get joint working, both inside and outside
the Conventions and the Protocol, is opportunities such as forestry
as a CDM mechanism, forest products in relation to sustainable
energy, for example, and the St Petersburg meeting will be under
the FLEGT process, which is an opportunity for some legally binding
agreements to come out of FLEGT, in the same way that the EU FLEGT
has now achieved political agreement.
Q258 Chairman: We will come on to
FLEGT.
Mr Morley: I just want to say
the EU FLEGT was encouraged by the G8 Ministerial on environment
and development, because we did press the Commission to make sure
that the process and the details were brought forward in order
to have political agreement on the EU FLEGT under the UK presidency.
So that had a role to play in terms of moving that process forward
as well. So those are tangible outcomes.
Q259 Chairman: China. A meeting has
taken place with China today. What is China's position on all
of this?
Mr Morley: China recognises that
there is a serious problem with illegal logging. We have engaged
with China on a number of levels and a number of fronts.
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