Examination of Witnesses (Questions 720
- 722)
WEDNESDAY 14 JUNE 2006
RT HON
DOUGLAS ALEXANDER
MP, MR SIMON
WEBB AND
MR NIGEL
CAMPBELL
Q720 Mr Chaytor: Returning to the
international dimension, the government established a bilateral
agreement with China two years ago, I understand, to do joint
work on climate change. Work has been done in terms of agriculture
with China and in terms of renewable energies. Is there any joint
working specifically on dock transport and is the department represented
on the bilateral working group?
Mr Alexander: One of the reasons
that we were so keen to prioritise climate change in Gleneagles
was to reflect the fact that, in light of the difficulties of
securing full international cooperation on Kyoto, we needed if
we were serious about this issue to engage the emerging economies
of India and China. If I recollect, the piece of joint working
that you describe involves support for a clean coal technology
power station where there was a demonstration project to be developed
in China. Again, if one looks at the number of coal fired power
stations that are anticipated in China over the years to come,
it is salutary in light of the present policy levers available
to all governments. It will have the potential to make a very
considerable impact. It is right to recognise that through our
leadership of the G8 we have placed a significant weight on relationships
with China. I also was aware that in terms of dealings at a European
level with China during the British presidency the environment
featured prominently. Simon, in terms of the official contact,
are you aware of what has been the position previously with the
department?
Mr Webb: Obviously we have been
in support of the work which colleagues from Defra have been doing
on that. As you know, they put an enormous amount of effort into
that and made some progress. To be honest, there has not been
a lot of work. There was not much of a transport component to
that. We are continuing to try. I should mention that we have
another thing on the go here which is an organisation which we
have been supporting the Secretary of State on, turning it into
an international transport forum. We just got this done last month.
That organisation has concluded that, subject to a formal decision,
it would like to invite China and India to participate in the
international transport forum. I am going to Beijing on Monday
to talk to Chinese colleagues about whether they would like to
come and talk about transport. On the agenda of this forum at
the meeting, there was a very big item on sustainable climate
change and on the future programme. There will be other things
like congestion and so on. We are offering dialogue to Chinese
colleagues but again that is an offer and we hope they will take
it up.
Mr Alexander: That meeting was
the first meeting internationally that I undertook as the Secretary
of State for Transport. The deal that was there to be done—and
I am glad to say that we were able to secure it—was essentially
to change this organisation from what had been a European conference
of transport ministers to being a global forum. There were genuine
concerns being expressed by a number of countries as to whether
that was the way to go, but it was anticipating exactly that kind
of general work that Simon and his team had worked through the
proposals. Then I worked hard in Dublin to make sure that we got
the agreement. I am glad to say that we got the consensus in Dublin
to establish this global forum. On the day in Dublin that we did
that deal to establish the global forum, I am glad to say also
that it was a British government view that was expressed in the
broader debate about the environment which advanced the case for
aviation coming within the emissions trading scheme. We do use
whatever opportunities are available to us to advance the case,
not just for recognising the global nature of the challenge, but
also seeing if there are European solutions to continue to garner
support for it and whether there are global solutions to create
the forum in which we can achieve it.
Q721 Mr Chaytor: Given that we currently
have a billion vehicles on the world's roads, China is going to
contribute massively to an increase in the number of private vehicles
in the years ahead. Is there a case for specific British/Chinese
work to almost export some of the technological solutions that
the department is considering and the policy solutions as well?
Is there an advantage there in selling our expertise in traffic
management, congestion, emissions reductions to the Chinese before
they massively expand the number of private vehicles on their
roads?
Mr Alexander: In Thomas Freedman's
The World is Flat he quotes the number of new cars going
onto the road in Beijing every month. If you need to be convinced
as to the importance of this issue and the sustainability of the
Chinese economy in recent years, just look at the set of numbers
in his book. I am convinced of it. I think you raise an important,
broader point however. Do the kind of new technologies that we
have been discussing in terms of not just emissions but engine
efficiency offer genuine opportunities for economic growth and
indeed for British exports in the future? I am absolutely convinced
that is the case. Returning to the earlier point, can you decouple
carbon from economic growth, one of the ways that you can do that
is to get yourself into the right place in the global value chain
by being leaders in terms of green technology. That certainly
involves a transport component that ranges much more widely than
transport. If you look, for example, at the work that this government
has initiated in terms of renewables and the potential that offers
for us to develop real technological leadership, you are absolutely
right to challenge us to say: is there work that we can be doing,
not just with the Chinese but elsewhere globally. I will certainly
reflect on the point that you have made.
Q722 Chairman: We are very grateful
to you. You have been very generous with your time. I apologise
for having kept you a bit longer but, as you can gather, there
are quite a number of aspects of your brief that we were quite
interested in. We much appreciate the time you have spent exploring
them with us and I hope that you will find our report interesting
and helpful.
Mr Alexander: I am sure I will.
Thank you very much.
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