Examination of Witnesses (Questions 168-179)
LORD CARTER
OF COLES
8 FEBRUARY 2006
Q168 Chairman: Welcome. Lord Carter,
thank you very much for coming along this afternoon. We asked
you to come because some time ago we took evidence from the British
Council and the BBC World Service, as part of our general review
of the FCO's Annual Report and its funding of various organisations.
At that time we were told that your report on the Review of Public
Diplomacy was imminent; and, clearly, in October, when we were
taking that evidence we had hoped that we would be able to deal
with it at that time; but we are now doing it at the moment because
the report was published towards the end of last year. There was
a review of public diplomacy called the Wilton Review in 2002.
Why was it necessary to have another review so soon afterwards?
Lord Carter of Coles: The Wilton
Review took things a certain way forward, in the sense that prior
to that review the activities of the FCO, the British Council
and the World Service, were not as joined up as people thought
they should be. The Wilton Review pointed the way to the formation
of the Public Diplomacy Strategy Board. As that went on, people
began to wonder whether even more alignment of interests were
necessary. That is what I was asked to look at; it was really
building on progress made from the Wilton Report.
Q169 Chairman: How did you see your role
as chairman of this review?
Lord Carter of Coles: Really trying
to look at what was happening first of all, trying to get an understanding
of what the issues were and to see whether the system could be
made to work better and see whether we get any improvements.
Q170 Chairman: I have already referred
to the fact that we were expecting a report around the September,
as I was told at one point, and then October. Why was there a
delay in publication?
Lord Carter of Coles: I suppose
there are always two types of these sorts of reports. There are
those which are quite elegant but do not often get people to agree
to what to do, and they seem to find their way on to the shelves
of Whitehall; and there are those which are trying to be more
helpful and take a bit of perseverance to get people to agree
to work in a way which may get an outcome; and I think we chose
the latter route, and inevitably there were strong views at various
parts of the process. By discussing those with the key players
we managed to get something that had a wider body of support,
so it did take some more time.
Q171 Chairman: Was that a difficult process?
Is that why it took so long?
Lord Carter of Coles: Yes, because
I think we are dealing with some very powerful players, with very
strong positions and very clear views. Trying to get agreement
was not the easiest thing all the time—that is right.
Q172 Chairman: Is there a real agreement
now or is this a kind of holding position for continuation of
the debate?
Lord Carter of Coles: I like to
think, of course, but you will form your own view, that there
was agreement. What I really was not prepared to go forward with
was a sense that this is a "we generally all accept this;
thank you very much". I wanted a little more assurance that
people accepted some of the detail, or a reason why I should withdraw
that detailed recommendation.
Q173 Chairman: When you were asked to
do this job were you given a clear sense of what the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office wanted and what the Treasury wanted—or
maybe they wanted exactly the same—out of this?
Lord Carter of Coles: Yes, I think
they wanted greater clarity; that was my sense of it. Here was
something we were spending a lot of money on, £600 million,
and we were in this post 9/11 world where things were changing.
Was the organisation that had been put in place sufficiently agile
to respond, and was the money being spent in the most effective
way?
Q174 Mr Horam: Why are you so suspicious
of the British Council?
Lord Carter of Coles: I hate to
answer a question with a question, but why would you think?
Q175 Mr Horam: From your recommendation
that the FCO and the Council should together develop proposals
with an appropriate degree of oversight. It already had one institution
put in place by the Wilton Review; so you want even more. It must
be that you are very suspicious of the British Council.
Lord Carter of Coles: With respect,
I do not think that follows, no. This was, if you like, an evolution
saying that what people needed to do was to be much more co-ordinated
in what they did in each country and get those activities co-ordinated.
I would not like to leave that impression.
Q176 Mr Horam: Would that imply they
are not co-ordinated and they are not doing what the Foreign Office
wants them to do?
Lord Carter of Coles: No, I think
it would be a matter of both sides understanding what the other
thought. I do not think it was that way round. The British Council
has a huge amount of experience in the field, which could interact
with the Foreign Office as well. I do not think this is a one-way
thing at all.
Q177 Mr Horam: Let me put it another
way: why has the British Council system as we have had it, with
what the Wilton Review recommended on top, not working?
Lord Carter of Coles: If you look
on a country-by-country basis, as we did at expenditure and commitment
in various things, the question is: do these things operate in
self-defining silos, or is there some means of joining them up?
If you look back, historically there was often a historical definition
of why each of those organisations may have behaved in the way
they did, but often without reference to each other.
Q178 Mr Horam: Why does the British Council
not join them up? You are saying they may be operating differently
in silos in different countries—the British Council, presumably,
has its own strategy and its own priorities and it does co-ordinate,
and it must do.
Lord Carter of Coles: It does,
but the question of co-ordination of strategy from the Foreign
Office, in the sense of the priority within a country—first
of all the actual choice of countries that are prioritised is
important, so in a hierarchy where public diplomacy should be
practised with public money.
Q179 Mr Horam: Do you think the Foreign
Office should have a bigger say in deciding that?
Lord Carter of Coles: I think
the Foreign Office should set the strategy in discussion with
its partners, because they bring something to the table.
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