Examination of Witnesses (Questions 860
- 865)
TUESDAY 16 MAY 2006
MR DAVE
ROBERTS
Q860 Gwyn Prosser: Yes.
Mr Roberts: In terms of investigations
that we mounted but chose not to prosecute, and by "operations"
you mean restaurants stay open, factories still operate. There
is no power in legislation for the Immigration Department to close
down factories or restaurants; so, yes, they will operate, assuming
they have got the staff to operate. If we have taken people who
are working illegally from a restaurant, it may be that they are
not able to operate, but we would not be closing them down and
we do not have the powers in law to do that.
Q861 Chairman: You have given us
figures saying that 259 people went to jail last year as a result
of these enforcement actions. Those are all employers, are they?
Mr Roberts: Not necessarily. It
may be prosecutions for other offences. We have mounted prosecutions,
for example, in terms of people who have been abusing our marriage
rules. I would not be able to say how many of those 259 were employers,
but, again, if you want that information, Chairman, I will get
it for you.
Q862 Chairman: It would be very helpful
for the Committee to be clear whether we are talking about enforcement
action against employers or whether it is enforcement action against
individual illegal workers or people who have breached the immigration
laws in other ways.
Mr Roberts: Of course, I will
give you that information. They will be prosecutions against organised
criminals rather than individuals, I am sure. For example, a person
who may have set up an organised racket in relation to marriage,
but I will get you those.
Chairman: If you could give us a breakdown
of the offences, that would be very helpful.
Q863 Bob Russell: Can I come in on
the successful prosecutions. Was there ever an audit made, and
I am talking about the food processing chain here, as to where
the products of the companies—where there were successful
prosecutions carried out—ended up?
Mr Roberts: I do not know the
answer to that. Is implied in that question the co-operation from,
say, supermarkets? You touched on that in your earlier session.
Q864 Bob Russell: I did, indeed,
because I cannot believe that board rooms of the major supermarket
chains in this country are oblivious as to where their food stocks
are coming from, the routes they are taking and the possibility
that illegal labour is being used to process that food chain.
I just wondered whether you had done any audits on those 293 successful
prosecutions to see where the food product ended up?
Mr Roberts: I do not think we
have, but on the point about co-operation from major supermarkets,
I am very confident that in relation certainly to the Gangmasters
Licensing Authority there are huge levels of co-operation, and
also in Forum generally to discuss illegal working they are participating
effectively.
Q865 Gwyn Prosser: Are you in a position
to give us your assessments of the success or otherwise of the
joint workforce enforcement pilot? You will have heard Mark Boleat's
criticism of the Treasury, of tax officials failing to enforce
any sort of actions. What is your view on that?
Mr Roberts: I do not have a personal
or professional view on the issue of tax evasion, very much an
issue for Her Majesty's Customs and Revenue. I can, however, advise
the Committee that the joint workplace enforcement pilot has been
operated since September and it has drawn together the Immigration
Service and HM Revenue and Customs, DWP, DTI, the Health and Safety
Executive and the Gangmasters Licensing Authority—that it
is a pilot—that it is looking to disrupt business, businesses
that are exploiting the illegal migrant labour market. We are
in the process of evaluating progress, not in a formal evaluation.
We have achieved protocol agreements. I mentioned the one earlier
with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, intelligence sharing and
handling, and it goes on, and I think about four days ago was
the first prosecution from this unit where an employer was fined,
I think, some £8,000 for illegal activity. I would be more
than happy to share with the Committee more details of the progress
in a note, if that would be helpful.
Chairman: Good. Mr Roberts, thank you
very much indeed.
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