Examination of Witnesses (Questions 392-399)
MR BILL
CALLAGHAN, MS
DEBORAH ARNOTT,
COUNCILLOR DAVID
ROGERS OBE, MR
DEREK ALLEN,
MR GRAHAM
JUKES AND
MR IAN
GRAY
24 NOVEMBER 2005
Q392 Chairman: Good morning.
Could I welcome you and ask you to introduce yourselves for the
sake of the record.
Mr Gray: I am Ian
Gray. I am the Policy Officer for Health Development at the Chartered
Institute of Environmental Health.
Mr Jukes: I am Graham Jukes, Chief
Executive of the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health.
Ms Arnott: I am Deborah Arnott,
Director of ASH, which is a campaigning health charity set up
by the Royal College of Physicians to campaign for evidence-based
tobacco control policies.
Mr Callaghan: I am Bill Callaghan
and I chair the Health and Safety Commission.
Mr Allen: I am Derek Allen. I
am the Executive Director of LACORS, Local Authorities Coordinators
of Regulatory Services, which is a central body of the Local Government
Association.
Cllr Rogers: Councillor David
Rogers. I chair the Community Wellbeing Board of the Local Government
Association.
Q393 Chairman: Mr Callaghan,
should there be a comprehensive ban on smoking in the workplace,
including all pubs and clubs?
Mr Callaghan: The answer is yes.
I understand the Government has decided that this is an important
public health matter and I think you will have seen the letter
I sent to Patricia Hewitt which sets out the case for such a ban.
We would be concerned about creating through a two-tier system
those who are protected and those who are not, and we also think
there is a strong better regulation case for having a simple ban.
We think that a two-tier system would lead to enforcement difficulties.
Q394 Chairman: What are
the problems with the health issues around the Government's proposals?
Mr Callaghan: We welcome the fact
that the Government is treating this seriously. We understand
from the SCOTH report the increased risk to workers who are regularly
exposed to tobacco smoke. Our job as the Health and Safety Commission
is to protect people at work and we think there are benefits from
this proposal.
Q395 Chairman: There are
many other trades and professions that are quite dangerous in
terms of people at work, are there not? The obvious ones are deep
sea diving, coal mining or even car mechanics in terms of fumes
and things like that in the workplace. Why is second-hand smoke
such a big issue?
Mr Callaghan: The Department of
Health is in the lead on this and is treating this as an important
public health measure. Chairman, I agree there are many other
risks to workers in the workplace. For example, if one is looking
at pubs, there are risks in terms of violence to staff or manual
handling, but I think that is one of the reasons why we have pressed
for a regulated regime which is going to be simple, because we
have a worry that if you create complexity that is going to draw
rather scarce environmental health officer resources away from
some of the other risks in the workplace. Yes, there are other
risks to workers, but we want to make sure that we are allocating,
along with our local authority colleagues, resources properly
and if you introduce complexity that will get in the way.
Q396 Chairman: Is there
any one issue that determines whether workers are allowed to work
in a dangerous environment or are there many reasons why people
are allowed to work as coal miners or as deep sea divers as it
were?
Mr Callaghan: Obviously there
are many different hazards in the workplace, hazards to people's
safety and hazards in terms of their health.
Q397 Chairman: What do
you say to people who say that people smoke in pubs and so if
somebody goes to work in a pub they know they are going into a
smoky environment? If somebody goes to work in a coal mine they
know it is going to be dusty. What do you say about the pubs?
Mr Callaghan: I think in both
cases we would ensure that employers were exercising their duties
under the Health and Safety at Work Act to make sure that the
risks were minimised as far as is practicable.
Q398 Chairman: There has
been no publication of any regulations that are likely to come
in if the Bill goes ahead as it is published at the moment. Would
the Health and Safety Commission normally be asked by Government
to look at regulations from the health and safety perspective?
Mr Callaghan: I am sure both the
Commission and colleagues in the Health and Safety Executive would
want to be involved with the DOH on any detailed regulations.
Q399 Chairman: Have you
been asked at this stage to look at any possible regulations that
would come along with this Bill?
Mr Callaghan: The Commission has
not. My understanding is that there has been some contact with
officials. Regulations do not exist at the moment. Obviously officials
are in close contact with DOH colleagues.
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