Sections 60-79
1 NOVEMBER 2005
Cross-examined by MR SMALLWOOD
60. MR SMALLWOOD: Just one point there.
You mentioned the code of practice for pedicab operators, item
4. The Driving Standards Agency test is the test taken by people
who are, if you like, taking the driving test. We have taken that
and adapted it for pedicab riders, so we have adapted the DSA
test for pedicab riders, which tests them on the Highway Code.
(Mr Low) Right.
61. CHAIRMAN: Any further questions?
62. MR CLARKSON: No.
63. CHAIRMAN: You have no further witnesses?
64. MR CLARKSON: I do have one more
witness who will tell you briefly about the registration system
which, of course, is the guts of the exercise.
The witness withdrew
MR ROY ELLIS, sworn
Examined by MR CLARKSON
65. MR CLARKSON: I will introduce Mr
Ellis. You are employed by Transport for London, Head of the Public
Carriage Office. You have held that position since May 1995. I
do not think we need go any further into your background. The
registration scheme. What will the registration scheme be?
(Mr Ellis) The
registration scheme will be a means of recording those parts of
the information required within the Bill: the name of the operator;
the address of the operator; the date of registration and the
date of termination of any registration; the contact details of
the operator and details of the vehicle itself - any frame number,
distinguishing marks, colour, make of the pedicab itself.
66. How user-friendly will the system be?
(Mr Ellis) We would
seek to make it as user-friendly as possible. We have drafted
a simple application form and a variation form, and it will simply
be a requirement that the operator completes that form and returns
it to us, and details will be recorded on the register of licensees.
Any variations to that will be made on a similarly simple form.
That register will be made available to the extent that the Bill
indicates.
67. Cost?
(Mr Ellis) At the
moment, the likelihood is that the registration fee will be in
the region of £75 to £90 per pedicab. The cost of a
licence plate, registration plate, is likely to be something between
£1 and £5 - it depends on the nature and style of the
plate itself. Certainly in administering the registration scheme
we would expect to operate it on the same basis as we do the taxi
and private hire licences, in that there would be no question
of making a surplus; it would merely be a charge to cover the
cost of administering the registration scheme itself.
68. I think you have done a mock plate, have
you not?
(Mr Ellis) That
is an example of the sort of plate that might be affixed to a
pedicab (indicates). It may or may not say "registered";
it may or may not be that colour or design. It is similar to the
style of plate that is affixed to taxis and outside-London private
hire vehicles. It is merely indicative of the style that we would
do to indicate the number that would be on the registration system.
69. That number may come at a premium, I suspect.
Need it be plastic?
(Mr Ellis) No,
it could be merely a stick-on type; it could be just the backing
sheet. It would be a means that clearly identified with an easily-read
number so that that vehicle is easily identifiable and can then
be related to the registration details kept in our register.
70. Last heading: "Enforcement of Registration".
(Mr Ellis) The
role of the Public Carriage Office would be merely to maintain
the register. We do not have any powers to refuse a registration;
we do not have any powers to suspend or revoke a registration.
Our role would be merely to maintain the register, to maintain
the details up-to-date in accordance with forms that are referred
to us so that other authorities, the police and local authorities,
can undertake any enforcement action under the parking and traffic
regulations.
71. MR CLARKSON: Thank you, Mr Ellis.
That is all I have in-chief.
Cross-examined by MR SMALLWOOD
72. MR SMALLWOOD: Just one thing. Will
you acknowledge that we have asked for a registration system for
the last four or five years?
(Mr Ellis) Yes,
indeed, we have been speaking to pedicab operators and they have
indeed been consistent in their request that there should be a
system such as this.
73. MR CLARKSON: After that last question
I do not think there is any issue between the two sides that they
should be registered. I think I am silenced.
The witness withdrew
74. CHAIRMAN: Mr Smallwood, would you
like to address the Committee?
75. MR SMALLWOOD: Firstly, I would like
to thank the Committee very much for agreeing to do the pedicabs
first. As I have said and Counsel for the Promoters has said,
the main part of this is the registration, and this is something
that we have been after for seven years since the industry started.
However, it is what the implications of that registration might
be for the industry which would be my main point here.
76. The pedicab industry is a very new industry
to London; it has been welcomed as a very positive initiative
by local authorities, other organisations, blue chip companies,
the media and the public, particularly at a time when energy use
and pollution are key issues. I would like to make it clear to
the Committee that we are not an anarchic activity designed to
challenge the authorities - not at all; on the contrary, it was
introduced by Bugbugs as being a very positive and exciting initiative
in addition to London's integrated transport system. We envisaged
that that would be welcomed by the authorities, transport groups
and the public, which generally it has been.
77. However, as with any new market or activity
it is important to civil society, based on the law, that dialogue
and communication about concerns should be open, frank, constructive
and include all stakeholders. The pedicab riders are cyclists
and, as such, are liable for infringements of moving traffic regulations
applicable to cyclists - obviously, red lights, one-way streets,
etc - and must abide by the Highway Code and have a high regard
for health and safety issues regarding their passengers, themselves
and other road users.
78. Any additional proposed legislation to
be applied to any industry , whatever it might be, should surely
be drafted (a) by the appropriate authority (ie, in this case,
Transport for London) and (b) with the full and proper consultation
with all stakeholders (ie, in this case, all the local authorities,
other transport groups, the pedicab industry and so on).
79. Only by doing this will appropriate legislation
be introduced. If I might give a very brief background of the
industry just to clarify one or two things? Before Bugbugs started
in London thorough legal research was done and we then commenced
it; this was in 1988. The business started with comprehensive
and accountable management systems and procedures including training,
maintenance, codes of conduct and pubic liability insurance, as
one would expect of any fit and proper business in the transport
industry. This is one thing that was brought up by one of the
last witnesses, that insurance is a very key issue, and we have
always made sure that we have appropriate insurance in place.
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