Select Committee on Committee on the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Bill Minutes of Evidence


Sections 80-86

3 NOVEMBER 2005

80. MR CLARKSON: And the bond would be lesser than the full outstanding sums, would it?

(Mr Troy) Yes, it would. We are thinking in the region of £200 or £250.

 81. And it would be recoverable in circumstances where there was an innocent explanation, would it?

(Mr Troy) That is correct, yes.

 82. It would set up a system, would it not, of stopping any further removal to the pound because that car still had these things outstanding against them?

(Mr Troy) Yes. The clause proposes that the keeper then displays that surety or bond on their dashboard to ensure that that is not repeated. We should have the technical means of ensuring that does not happen, but that is another way of making sure it cannot be repeated.

 83. CHAIRMAN: I think we are fairly clear now about the problem, the aim and the mechanism. The only objection we had from the Government said that they propose to use Section 79 of the Traffic Management Act to achieve the same measure or bring about a similar measure. What are your comments on that?

(Mr Troy) My understanding is that section 79 does not provide this particular provision on three counts. Firstly, the proposal in this clause includes within the definition of persistent evader those who fall under the road user regulations in London. A persistent evader can be someone who has a number of road traffic penalty charge notices and Congestion charging penalties as well. The second area and probably the most fundamental is that I do not think Section 79 deals with situations where the vehicle is parked lawfully. Thirdly, and this is quite crucial to London, Mr Clarkson introduced the concept of our Enforcement Task Force, where we work very closely with all the enforcement agents in London and have done for some years and this legislation provides the opportunity for each one to work on each other's behalf. So if there is a persistent evader in Camden and they have identified that individual as a persistent evader and then they go and park in Islington, Islington will be able to remove that vehicle knowing that that person is a problem, and that provision is not in the Traffic Management Act as I understand it.

 84. May I just say in respect of 25(4) and the definitions there, we take the view that there are fine tunings that could be achieved and we would need a little time to settle amendments. We can either do this after these proceedings are completed and before the Chairman signs off the Bill or, if it is going to take longer, we thought we could deal with it in another place. I declare that because I think for formality reasons that should be on the record. Thank you very much, Mr Troy.

The witness withdrew

 85. MR CLARKSON: I have no more witnesses. Those are all the matters that we lay before the Committee. Thank you very much.

 86. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much indeed. In that case, the Committee will withdraw to discuss in private and hopefully recall you before too long to complete the proceedings by 11 o'clock. Thank you very much.

Counsel and Parties are directed to withdraw and, after a short while, are again called in
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Can I first of all thank the Petitioners and indeed the Promoters. The Committee has now considered the Petitioners, the evidence and the Government's report in detail and we have decided to delete Clause 13 and to delete Part 4. We have accepted the Promoters' detailed amendments. We will produce a special report with our observations on the remaining clauses and our recommendations for further consultation and discussion. That will be produced as soon as possible and published hopefully this week. It only therefore remains for me to invite Mr Clarkson to approve the Preamble. MR CLARKSON: Thank you, Sir. I will call the two officers, Mr Blackwell and Ms Dowdye. Are you Gary Blackwell, Head of Litigation at Westminster City Council and joint Promoters of the Bill. MR BLACKWELL: I am. MR CLARKSON: Are you Mary Dowdye, Enforcement Partnerships Manager at Transport for London, the other joint Promoter in the Bill. MS DOWDYE: I am. MR CLARKSON: Have you both read the Preamble to the Bill? MS DOWDYE: I have. MR BLACKWELL: I have. MR CLARKSON: Is it true? MS DOWDYE: It is. MR BLACKWELL: It is. MR CLARKSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.



 
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