Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60-74)
MR PETER
HOUSDEN
14 NOVEMBER 2005
Q60 Mr Lancaster: Yes, but where
is the emphasis; is it to create a stable community by expanding
the school first, or to build more houses when there is no school?
You can see the conflict.
Mr Housden: Yes, I do, and I guess
there is not a general answer to all of that. The local planning
system and discussions at local level will be designed to get
the best outcome in a particular area.
Q61 Chair: Returning to the headcount
reductions, your staff survey demonstrates that the number of
staff who feel they have job security is down 30% since 2003.
That is not going to contribute to great staff morale! How do
you plan to improve staff morale whilst nevertheless managing
your commitment to reduce staff numbers?
Mr Housden: Those views are particularly
pronounced in staff who work in the area of business services
where, across government, there is active consideration of the
way these shared services can be delivered to produce efficiency
savings. That is a very important part of the efficiency programme,
so inevitably people working in those services are concerned.
One of the issues I mentioned right at the beginning was about
business services. We have programmes to modernise and improve
the efficiency of those in ODPM. I think we should do that in
a clear, open and speedy way so that any uncertainties can be
resolved. The transfer of public undertakings and other legal
frameworks ensure that where a function does move outside of government,
if it is to be outsourced, that the rights of staff can be protected.
We have good relationships with our trade unions. I met them this
week to understand how they feel about those sorts of issues,
so we would want to manage those professionally and openly.
Q62 Chair: The staff survey pointed
out that a high percentage of staff felt that they were valued
within the Department, but it pointed to a significant minority
who complained of bullying, and in particular black and ethnic
minority members of staff. What are you doing to address that
issue?
Mr Housden: Those are real concerns
when you read them in staff surveys. There are two things really.
Generally, the organisation has to be clear with all employees
but particularly those who have managerial and supervisory roles,
that behaviour that is construed as bullying or intimidatory is
just not acceptable; and there are disciplinary procedures and
other appropriate mechanisms to bring those points home.
Q63 Chair: That has obviously not
been working, otherwise those members of staff would not be complaining.
Mr Housden: Indeed, and I think
making those expectations and requirements doubly clear is very
important.
Q64 Chair: How are you going to do
that?
Mr Housden: As one of the key
things we want to respond to the staff survey on, we want to look
at our whole range of human resource policies. I want to re-define
the expectation on managers and supervisors to be clear about
all of their responsibilities towards their staff. You mentioned
black and minority ethnic staff; there are some particular issues
there about the concentration of those staff in lower grades and
about their levels of satisfaction, and whether, as a Civil Service
department, we have a sufficiently robust programme to make sure
we are identifying talent and moving not only black and minority
ethnic staff but also women and employees with disability into
senior grades more effectively. You heard the publicity around
the diversity plan that Gus O'Donnell announced 10 days or so
ago. We intend to have a vigorous programme in the Department
to ensure that our staff benefit from that. It is for good business
reasons really; it is not simply about fairness; it is about making
sure we have the best people and that they are being highly motivated.
I too was concerned about those aspects of the staff survey.
Q65 Mr Betts: In the jargon, do you
need a culture change in the Department?
Mr Housden: Yes. Thank you for
being sympathetic with the language—it is tough, is it not?
I do think there are always issues around in this way, but basically
we are. We cannot be content with the positive outcomes of the
staff survey and ignore this issue and others. As a leadership
group, the buck stops with me. We have got to be out there and
explaining more clearly what the Office is about. We have to make
sure that the quality of leadership and management is high and
rising, and that everyone has the opportunity to succeed. That
is absolutely clear.
Q66 Mr Betts: In the next two years
what are the three biggest jobs that are going to come across
your desk?
Mr Housden: Jobs in the sense
of policies?
Q67 Mr Betts: Major issues that you
are going to have to think about.
Mr Housden: Right now, the response
to the Barker Report is going to be something where the Government
is committed to a response by the end of the year. That will be
a major piece of work. It will be the start of a story rather
than a conclusion. The local government finance and functions
that Michael Lyons is examining currently will be hugely important.
There is a range of other issues around housing, on the respect
agenda. I think we will be very, very busy, but the two that strike
me at the moment as being of very great significance are on Lyons
and on Barker.
Q68 Chair: Will you be able to deliver
the response to the Barker Review on time?
Mr Housden: Yes.
Chair: We will hold you to it.
Q69 Mr Betts: Have you any more plans
for devolution of staff out to the regions?
Mr Housden: We have a relocation
plan, as you know. One of the things I am looking at currently
is whether that goes far enough and whether there would be important
business benefits for us with particular functions being relocated
elsewhere. I am looking at that, yes.
Q70 Mr Betts: When are you likely
to have a view about that?
Mr Housden: Within the next two
or three months, because it is very important in terms of planning
good use of our assets, for example. We are on five sites in Central
London at the moment, but we are looking at where our staff would
best be located. It will be the next two or three months.
Q71 Anne Main: How do you find that
works in with the concept of the past initiative? If you then
generate an uplift in some of these areas, would you be reviewing
that strategy?
Mr Housden: Regional economic
capacity is very important to the Government as a whole, but the
market renewal pathfinders are about much smaller areas within
what could otherwise be reasonably prosperous zones. When I worked
in Nottinghamshire for example, some of the former mining communities,
where the economic reason for the community and settlement had
pretty well gone, there were real concerns about declining demand
for housing, lots of voids, falling house prices. That is what
the market renewal pathfinders are designed to address in a quite
systematic way. I do not think they would be affected by relocation
or indeed by stronger regional competitiveness, although that
might make the housing market a bit more vibrant. I suspect there
will be some places where there will be continuing issues about
low demand and the issues that flow from that.
Q72 Mr Betts: Going back to the morale
of the Department, ODPM has been around in various forms for the
last few years, so it has probably had more changes and bits added
on and bits taken off than any other department. Everyone knows
there is going to be a Home Office next year or the year after,
and a Foreign Office, but maybe they are not quite sure whether
the ODPM is still going to be there. How difficult is it to motivate
people with that sort of uncertainty? It was certainly around
before the last election, for example, with rumours going around.
Mr Housden: The staff survey shows
that people are very motivated by what they do. In the time I
have had with people, you can see that people really care about
planning, about neighbourhoods and about their own profession.
Government will always be busy and active on those, so wherever
those things might get located over machinery of government changes,
that motivation will be there. I think the sustainable communities
agenda, which shows how all those bits relate to each other, does
motivate staff. In addition, these are outcomes that matter to
people—and people in communities do not experience government
chopped up into little bits; it is a whole experience for them.
The point the staff survey makes is that the leadership groups
need to make more effort to get out and explain and engage staff
in those issues. That is what we are committed to doing.
Q73 Chair: What steps are you taking
to improve the working between the ODPM at the centre and the
government offices, for example?
Mr Housden: Our existing relationship
is very close. We have a board member who has specific responsibility
for government offices. I have been, in my first couple of weeks
of the job, in touch with them all. I have not managed to visit
them all, but I have spoken with them on video conference. We
have some important work going on to improve their effectiveness,
to bring other government departments more closely into the debate.
I am keen, however, that we get a stronger government office influence
on policy formation because I do not think you can design a policy
properly without understanding a lot about how it is going to
be delivered. To bring them more closely up the policy creation
chain is very important. There is a range of discussions like
that going on at the moment.
Q74 Chair: Thank you very much. I
think you will have got a strong message from us that we are very
keen on plain English and on abstract concepts being put into
concrete themes, so to speak, so that we and the general public
can understand them. I am sure that if you take that message away
we will have a very productive relationship.
Mr Housden: Thank you very much.
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