Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-101)
MR ALUN
EVANS, SIR
GRAHAM MELDRUM,
MR DAVE
LAWRENCE AND
MRS MARIE
WINCKLER
30 JANUARY 2006
Q100 Lyn Brown: You say
that there is going to be a report ready in a matter of days.
Is it possible for this inquiry to receive a copy of that report?
Secondly, can you and do you use the CPA process to take action
on issues around diversity? Would you not accept that in order
to make progress on issues of diversity there needs to be a real
change of attitude throughout the whole of the Fire Service? Can
you tell me what you are doing in order to make that change of
attitude happen?
Sir Graham Meldrum: We have got
the CPA process to include the diagnostic area relating specifically
to equality and diversity, so that was part of the CPA process.
We have also done a lot of work with the Commission for Racial
Equality in relation to ensuring that the service is delivering
its requirement under the Race Relations (Amendment) Act. It is
true to say that in many areas we are finding that progress has
not been made as quickly as it should have been, that there is
a need to re-examine quite a number of areas. We cannot sit here
and say that we have made great progress in equality and diversity
when you are talking about 2.4% of a workforce, both in relation
to women and to members of the black and ethnic minority community.
That is not good enough. I chair the Diversity Happens Programme
Board which is a board made up of stakeholders. We are now re-examining
the way to take all of this forward in the light of the lack of
progress that has been made in order to get the stakeholders to
sign up to ensure that this is driven forward in the future.
Mr Evans: There is an issue, and
it is an important one, about the way in which you manage this
in that there is a limit to what the ODPM can say has got to happen
and will happen. This is about a cultural change out there in
the service. In other areas we are criticised for having too much
intervention and too many targets. What we have to do is set the
right culture, the strategy from the centre, but it must be for
local rescue authorities to make the changes and then we have
to encourage those and show where there has been good practice,
and I mentioned London, and show people that this can be achieved,
but it is not something that can be done entirely from the centre.
Q101 Lyn Brown: Given
that you failed to mention it even in your submission and given
that it was within the terms of reference of this committee, are
you confident that you are setting the right culture and a strategy
to obtain the changes needed?
Mr Evans: I am confident that
from now on the things that Sir Graham has set out and the fact
that we will set new targets from the centre but working with
authorities will give us the ability to do this. I come back to
the fact that the proof of this will be in how well the service
at grass roots levels responds to this, not in how many targets
we set from the centre.
Mr Lawrence: We did make this
a clear part of the CPA. We are certainly not happy with the results.
It is part of the performance improvement planning for the CPA
process and we certainly expect that the next round of CPA action
will pick up on this. We are recognising that there is an awful
lot more work that we have to do in order to encourage FRAs to
be more successful than this.
Chair: Thank you very much indeed. If
you could make sure that you provide the written additional material
that was asked for earlier on, we would be grateful.
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