Examination of Witnesses (Questions 160-166)
DEPARTMENT OF
TRADE AND
INDUSTRY AND
ADVANTAGE WEST
MIDLANDS
20 MARCH 2006
Q160 Mr Mitchell: Yes, but if you
are sending the company naked into the Chinese conference chamber,
any self-respecting government is going to say that if its own
government cannot help it, why should they bother.
Mr Alty: I can assure you that
there were discussions with the company about whether any of these
options were open. All I am saying is that the amounts of money
involved would not have gone anywhere near to meeting the sort
of cash sums we are talking about.
Q161 Mr Mitchell: On pages 4 and
5 the Report says that you could have drawn up comprehensive contingency
plans earlier. Why did you not draw up plans earlier?
Sir Brian Bender: This was a Report
agreed with the NAO, but this particular point was the view of
the NAO. My own view, having looked at this very carefully, is
that the Department, in what was a developing and moving situation,
did draw up contingency plans which it refined as time passed.
Looking at the papers afresh, I do not feel that there are particular
things we should have done particularly differently. The NAO had
their view that there were things we could have done earlier:
I am not convinced of that, having studied the papers and talked
to people.
Q162 Mr Mitchell: Why is there a
difference of view between Customs and Excise and the DTI in the
sense that they thought it was worth not calling in the VAT debt
as a kind of statement of faith in the company and you did not
think it worthwhile helping them any more?
Ms Diggle: What the Customs and
Excise did and what HMRC do now is to look on a very pragmatic
basis at how they can best get the maximum revenue.
Q163 Mr Mitchell: They have to look
for a return, do they not?
Ms Diggle: Yes, they do.
Q164 Mr Mitchell: They have to be
hopeful that they can get their money back.
Ms Diggle: They look for the maximum
revenue that they can hope to get, they look at the possible different
scenarios and they do have to look at the possibility that, if
they absolutely insist on all the revenue immediately, the company
may go bust on the spot and things may get worse. They sometimes
find that it pays to wait.
Q165 Mr Khan: Just so I can have
some clarity, you accept the first part of Mr Clark's supplementary
question, which was that you have acted in an exemplary manner
throughout. You do not accept the second part of his question,
which was that the one chink is the £6.5 million loan. Is
that correct?
Sir Brian Bender: That is correct
and both accounting officers are saying that.
Ms Bell: Absolutely.
Greg Clark: May I clarify that that is
with the benefit of hindsight? I am certainly not suggesting that
was not a judgment genuinely entered into at the time; it was
merely an outturn point.
Mr Khan: Just for clarity, I think that
Mr Clark was asserting that the one chink was the £6.5 million
and the point I was trying to make was that the DTI do not accept
that, nor do some colleagues round the table.
Q166 Chairman: I am also intrigued
by this £6.5 million but I am going to rule myself out of
order from asking further questions. If you feel able to provide
a note, this question of whether it provided value for money is
still interesting. I know they could have bought the company more
cheaply under administration, but whether one week would have
made a difference . . .? If you feel able to provide a note, we
should be grateful, but I suspect that we have really gone into
this as deeply as we can this afternoon. [6]
Sir Brian Bender: May I suggest
that we shall look at the transcript when it is available and
see whether there is anything we can sensibly add which was not
read into the record today.
Chairman: Thank you; it has been an excellent
hearing. We have gone into great detail. Thank you Sir Brian for
coming—of course it is your duty to come—but thank
you Ms Bell for coming; your evidence has been very useful indeed
and I congratulate you on the way in which you have explained
matters to us so fully. I am very grateful.
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