Examination of Witnesses (Questions 40-59)
NORTHERN IRELAND
DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH, SOCIAL
SERVICES AND
PUBLIC SAFETY
2 NOVEMBER 2004
Q40 Mr Steinberg: So they are open
seven hours a day, five days a week and possibly at the weekends.
How much money have you actually had in real terms increase in
the last four to five years?
Mr Gowdy: In our overall budget?
Q41 Mr Steinberg: Yes.
Mr Gowdy: Mr Hamilton would be
in a better position to deal with that. Can I just say to you
very quickly that it is not a case of us not being able to run
the theatres continuously from the earliest hours in the morning
through to the latest hours at night but between each session
the theatres need to be cleaned and any of the consumables that
are used need to be put in place.
Q42 Mr Steinberg: A friend of mine
is in the local hospital, my wife went to visit them on Sunday,
and the operating theatres were being used at six o'clock on Sunday
night for routine operations. Does that happen in Northern Ireland?
Mr Gowdy: It has happened on occasions
when we—
Q43 Mr Steinberg: I am not talking
about on occasions, does it happen?
Mr Gowdy: Not with the level of
funding we have got.
Q44 Mr Steinberg: So how much real
term increase have you had?
Mr Hamilton: Over the last few
years in real terms increase for service development we have had
about £30 to £40 million a year.
Q45 Mr Steinberg: Extra?
Mr Hamilton: Extra.
Q46 Mr Steinberg: What are you doing
with it?
Mr Hamilton: That has been used
to invest across a whole range of services right across from the
community to life saving interventions.
Mr Gowdy: The introduction of
new drugs.
Q47 Mr Steinberg: How many more operations
have taken place since you have had the increase in resources?
Mr Hamilton: We have funded 2,500
additional sessions since the last report. That is additionality,
additional sessions.
Q48 Mr Steinberg: So what was it
before then? What was the capacity being used before that? If
it is 37% now it must have been, what, around 15%?
Mr Gowdy: It has moved up. The
figures that are in the Report relate to the 63%, something in
the order of 30,500 sessions held in our theatres. In 2003-04
that had risen to 33,052 sessions which equates to a 64% utilisation.
The point I was making earlier was we have aspirations to increase
but it is not possible to make quantum jumps.
Q49 Mr Steinberg: Tell me, do you
use the theatres for private operations?
Mr Gowdy: Pardon?
Q50 Mr Steinberg: Do the surgeons
use the theatres for private operations?
Dr Carson: The private sector
in Northern Ireland is very small. The majority of that private
sector work is done in the independent hospital sector.
Q51 Mr Steinberg: You are not answering
the question.
Dr Carson: There are some situations
where private patients are done within NHS facilities, that is
correct.
Q52 Mr Steinberg: When do they use
the theatres?
Dr Carson: Those theatres may
be set aside specifically for private sector time.
Q53 Mr Steinberg: So you are telling
us that NHS theatres are being used for the private sector and
37% of the theatres stand empty at some stage during the year
and private medicine and private operations are taking place during
that 37%?
Dr Carson: Private sector medicine
is not displacing NHS activity.
Q54 Mr Steinberg: It must be.
Dr Carson: No, it is not.
Mr Gowdy: If we had more funding
we would put money in to increase the NHS activity.
Q55 Mr Steinberg: How much are consultants
allowed to earn on top of their contracted wage in the private
sector? Is it the same as in England?
Dr Carson: It is no different
from England.
Q56 Mr Steinberg: 10%?
Dr Carson: There is no limit on
what a consultant surgeon can earn in the private sector, no limit.
Q57 Mr Steinberg: Yes, there is a
limit, 10% of their salary.
Dr Carson: That is if you wish
to retain the full terms and conditions of an NHS contract, but
there are others who work outside that and beyond that.
Q58 Mr Steinberg: I got a statistic
yesterday—I am not going to tell you where it came from—that
was quite amazing. I was told yesterday that some of the private
consultants in Northern Ireland are earning £40,000 a year
extra. No, a month extra. £40,000 a month extra to boost
their salaries. If they are doing that they must be doing a hell
of a lot of private work that could have been done on the NHS.
Am I right or wrong?
Mr Gowdy: There is a very small
proportion, as Dr Carson said—
Q59 Mr Steinberg: I am asking Dr
Carson.
Dr Carson: I want to reinforce
the fact that we have a very small private sector in comparison
with that which takes place in England.
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