Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-119)
DFT, ATOC, NETWORK
RAIL, ORR AND
SRA
12 OCTOBER 2005
Q100 Chairman: I thought Doncaster
might be a good example. I know Doncaster railway station and
Doncaster is not like that. Will you promise me that you will
make Doncaster like that?
Mr Armitt: As you know, Chairman,
at the moment Doncaster station is having a very large retail
facility built right alongside it with a bridge which links across
from that retail facility into the station, so Doncaster will
get close to it.
Chairman: I am sure the good people of
Doncaster will believe that.
Q101 Greg Clark: Dr Mitchell, what
financial provision is there for station enhancement in the Integrated
Kent Franchise bid currently being pursued?
Dr Mitchell: The integrated Kent
bids are currently being evaluated, so I do not have that information
at the moment.
Q102 Greg Clark: Presumably if it
is part of the tender process, you would need to look at that?
Dr Mitchell: The tenderers—of
which I believe there are four—have been invited to make
proposals for that.
Q103 Greg Clark: It is a fixed tender,
does the tender specification include a financial contribution
to station enhancement?
Dr Mitchell: I do not have that
information.
Q104 Greg Clark: Can you write to
us with that information? In evaluating the bids, if bidders were
to go beyond what was the minimum in terms of station enhancement,
would that count in their favour?
Dr Mitchell: The bids are assessed
on the basis of the base bid first to establish a winner and then
we look at each enhancement proposed on a value for money basis
to see whether it meets an affordability criteria and also whether
it offers value for money as an individual scheme.[7]
Q105 Greg Clark: If an operator wants
to invest more in stations, will that count in their favour?
Dr Mitchell: It would be taken
account of in the development of the bid once we select a winner.
Q106 Greg Clark: We are quite sensitive
to this in Kent because we had a very bad experience with Connex
Southeast which had its franchise removed. One of the reasons
there was such dissatisfaction was the poor quality of investment
in stations. I hope I might have your assurance that the quality
of the station provision would be taken very seriously by the
Department when it makes these decisions.
Dr Mitchell: Indeed it is. We
take account of that when we pre-qualify the bidders for the franchise
in the first place and it will be taken account of in the assessment
of the bids.
Q107 Greg Clark: I understand Mr
Muir was the Managing Director of Connex Southeast during some
of this period and now represents the Association of Train Operating
Companies. From this vantage point, do you have any explanation
of why it was such a disaster at that time and what Dr Mitchell
might take from the experience of Connex to make sure it does
not happen again?
Mr Muir: The financial subsidy
profile, as bid by Connex, started off at a reasonable level and
declined over the 15 year period. It came to a point when the
subsidy was increasingly low and the estimates made at the time
of the bid simply turned out to be mistakes and Connex ran out
of money.
Q108 Greg Clark: The lesson is that
the cheapest bid is not always the best value.
Mr Muir: Certainly in that case,
if you run out of money, you cannot invest in stations.
Q109 Greg Clark: Can I ask questions
about disability access. Mr Armitt, on present progress, how long
would it be before all stations are DDA compliant?
Mr Armitt: The target has been
set for 2015 and that is probably not an unrealistic target. We
have the £370 million which has been mentioned and it will
also be something which the regulators will be able to take in
account. The periodic review of 2009-14 of £370 million is
not going to provide DDA at all stations.
Q110 Greg Clark: That is similar
to the answer you gave to Mr Trickett. Can I refer you to paragraph
4.12 of the Report. It says that by 2015, 240 of the busiest stations
would provide a step-free access to passengers. My calculation
is that there are 2,500 stations across the country, so we are
saying rather than being completely DDA compliant—in your
response to Mr Trickett—less than 10% of stations are going
to be step-free by then.
Mr Armitt: This is the SRA's consultation
paper. I think the Department have said that they would expect
them to achieve compliance by 2015.
Q111 Greg Clark: Of all stations?
Dr Mitchell: Correct.
Q112 Greg Clark: How can we account
for the discrepancy which the SRA consultation paper is suggesting,
that 10% of stations are going to be compliant by 2015 based on
some of the money which has been made available when both Dr Mitchell
and Mr Armitt are now telling me that all stations are to be compliant
by 2015?
Mr Armitt: I am saying it is our
policy objective. The other point I made was that £370 million
will not do it. The next periodic review, which the Rail Regulator
will carry out in 2009-14, will presumably take into account the
obligations that we have to improve DDA facilities. We will allocate
some funding for that because at the moment we do not have funding
specifically for that. The £370 million is the first time
that specific funds have been made available.
Q113 Greg Clark: The £370 million
is the amount of money which is being earmarked which falls way
short—by your own admission—of what is needed to make
it fully DDA compliant. Dr Mitchell, where is this extra money
coming from? Mr Armitt has referred to that as an objective, and
I assume an objective has within it an objective to deliver it.
Dr Mitchell: Yes. The objective
is to take all these little steps to complete the compliance by
2015; that is our target. The £370 million is a first contribution
to that, and as I said in earlier answers, the £370 million
is currently being prioritised to make sure that we serve the
maximum number of people and also take into account the priorities
of disabled groups.
Q114 Greg Clark: We know that is
nowhere near enough. Is it your assessment that you are likely
to meet the objective by 2015?
Dr Mitchell: We have an objective
to take all these little steps to meet the objective by 2015,
and as Mr Armitt said, the next period will be between 2009-14
and we will have to address that issue.
Q115 Greg Clark: Sitting as we do,
in 2005, Dr Mitchell, do you expect to meet that objective by
2015? What is your expectation?
Dr Mitchell: That is our objective.
Q116 Greg Clark: Do you expect to
meet the objective?
Dr Mitchell: I expect to meet
the objective.
Q117 Greg Clark: Thank you very much.
Dr Mitchell, you said in an earlier answer that the £370
million is from the Government.
Dr Mitchell: Correct.
Q118 Greg Clark: I understand that
80% of that is from Network Rail. Is there no difference between
Government spending and Network Rail, in your view?
Dr Mitchell: The £370 million
is a Government figure.
Mr Armitt: If I can offer an answer
to that. I think what is expected is that Network Rail will spend
80% of the £370 million because we are essentially the delivery
vehicle for the improvements.
Q119 Greg Clark: Mr Newton, according
to your publication, Making Stations Accessible to the Public,
Railways For All, you say that 80% of it is funded from Network
Rail and 20% from the Department for Transport. Is that correct?
Mr Newton: I would have to agree
with Mr Armitt. I think the 80% will be spent by Network Rail
but funded by the Department, as I say, because Network Rail is
in the best position to spend the money and manage the efficient
expenditure of that money.
7 Note by witness: The Integrated Kent Franchise
is currently being competitively tendered. It is intended to announce
the successful bidder before the end of the year. The specification
issued to bidders does not require them to carry out improvement
works to stations. If such enhancements were value for money,
the Department would expect them to be funded via Network Rail,
as the station owner, rather than through the franchise agreement
with the operator. The franchise will contain clear requirements
to clean and maintain stations throughout the life of the franchise,
and to return stations in good condition at the end of the franchise.
A minor works budget will be established when the franchise is
contractualised. Back
| 
