Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-152)
DAME
SUE STREET
DCB, LIZ NICHOLL
MBE, MR PETER
KEEN OBE,
MONDAY
6 FEBRUARY 2006
Q140 Mr Bacon: I just noticed a BBC
online article in December 2003 that reported that when the predecessor
of the person for whom you are standing in, John Steele, left
it was reported that person, Mr Richard Callicott, had often clashed
with Michele Verroken, UK Sport's head of drug-free sport. What
were those clashes about?
Ms Nicholl: I am afraid I cannot
answer that question. I do not understand the relevance of the
question. Perhaps you could explain what you are getting at.
Q141 Mr Bacon: It is obviously the
case that questions have been raised on a number of occasions
about the potential conflict of interest between, on the one hand,
being the body which promotes and prepares athletes and funds
then and, on the other hand, being the body which does drugs testing.
It is also the case—I do not know what these clashes were
about—that a short, four-paragraph article from the internet
dated 17 December 2003 refers to the fact that Mr Steele's predecessor
Mr Richard Callicott clashed with your head of drug-free sport.
Ms Nicholl: I can say that I was
director of performance at the time, I was a colleague of Michele
Verroken, I worked to Richard Callicott and I saw no evidence
of a clash between the two individuals in my time in UK Sport.
Q142 Mr Bacon: Are you confident
that there is no reason why we should expect drugs testing to
be done in any fairer or better or more independent way if it
were done by a separate body than if it were done by UK Sport
and therefore there is no need for any change?
Ms Nicholl: Yes, I am absolutely
confident; absolutely confident and so is WADA.
Q143 Mr Mitchell: Mr Keen, you put
me right when I said it was daft to fix targets. You said that
you did take into account the form of up and coming people or
athletes in other countries. How do you do that? Is it like timed
form for horse racing where you have comparisons of the latest
form of all the people who will be competing? Is it an exercise
which is as scientific as you can make it given human unpredictability,
rather than by guess and by god?
Mr Keen: It will vary from sport
to sport. Your observations are correct. People who succeed in
coaching and performance management are almost obsessional about
information. They commit their lives to understanding the events
and looking around the world and seeing what makes the difference
and who is coming through, who is hot and who is not. That is
the backcloth to your judgment about how to prepare an athlete
and how to set their goals accordingly and I perhaps have not
explained it well. Knowing what is possible what you are up against
and striving to achieve it is the psychology of winning. Without
going into great detail, the level of complexity and professionalism
now exhibited in most Olympic sports in this respect might surprise
many of the Committee. It is a long-term, very serious and, as
we would argue, very expensive business.
Q144 Mr Mitchell: We know as of now
the performance of every swagman who emerges from the Australian
bush in every field and we can chart it compared with our people.
Mr Keen: We can certainly chart
our competitors.
Q145 Mr Mitchell: I mean in the next
Olympics.
Mr Keen: With the possible exception
of China, who are probably playing a slightly different game to
the rest of the world. In response to one of the earlier questions
about Paralympic predictability China clearly held back a whole
raft of competitors in sports for the disabled prior to the Athens
Olympics and that is a problem. It is much harder to do in a sport
for the able-bodied because you have to qualify by right through
tournaments; you have to present your best athletes.
Q146 Mr Mitchell: That is in the
Paralympics though. Are there any similar surprises in the Olympics?
Mr Keen: If they are going to
come, they will come from China. China is able to operate on a
scale of preparation which nobody else in the world can predict
with 100% accuracy. Other than the rate of change of development,
you are still able to witness the performers coming through because
they have to compete internationally to be able to qualify for
the Olympic Games.
Mr Mitchell: That is interesting; thank
you very much.
Q147 Chairman: Like Mr Mitchell,
I am a bit dubious about this targeting and wonder whether it
is possible and whether it is right. If you really wanted to get
the maximum number of medals, why can you not just target a sport
with fewer people taking part and pour resources into it, or is
that unsporting?
Mr Keen: No, to be frank we have
to be very pragmatic in this area of goal setting, if you look
at the sports where we can be successful, either because we have
been, we have a track record, we understand that process, or because
we can see a gap in the market.
Q148 Chairman: Give us an idea of
the gap in the market or would that be betraying state secrets?
Mr Keen: A very good example would
be shooting. It is a sport where we have a track record in the
past of being quite successful. The opposition is very significant
at world level and many, many countries participate very successfully,
but in truth we have taken a dip in the last two Olympic cycles.
Not only should we get back to the level of what we could have
expected in the past, maybe one or two medals consistently, but,
given that there are 15 gold medal events there and our track
record and our knowledge of performance culture from other sports
which we can bring into shooting, we should be looking to shooting
to raise its game considerably and indeed are confident that it
can do so. The only thing I should add is that there is a very
clear need in shooting and some other sports for a performance
culture change. I think shooting are aware of that and have acknowledged
it.
Q149 Chairman: I know we spend a
lot on sailing already, but we obviously have a natural advantage
in sailing. Is that something you are going to target more?
Mr Keen: I should not say a natural
advantage; there are other great sailing nations which compete
such as France and many others. What we see in our Olympic sailing
programmes is the most professional, the smartest, the best organised
team in world sport in that sense. The fact that they are now
winning nearly 50% of all the medals they can win in the whole
Olympic arena says a lot about their consistency and their thoroughness
of preparation. Perhaps what is most surprising about sailing
is that it is very much a team phenomenon. When you spend time
with them what you meet is a whole group of individuals who see
the whole mission in a very, very similar way, despite the fact
that there is no real need for sailors to train together. Given
all the different classes and styles of boat they differ greatly
but collectively sailing has this clear vision, they know what
they want, they set very clear goals and they pursue them incredibly
professionally.
Q150 Mr Bacon: You took this country
from 13th to 1st in cycling over a period of years. How did you
do it?
Mr Keen: Root and branch review.
I came into a sport in 1997 which I coached to gold medal and
world record standard as a personal, stand-alone, do-it-myself
coach. I came into a sport with one and a half officials, a desk
and a room and that was it. Lottery funding was available and
we literally created an elite programme and mindset out of that.
Whether it is a blueprint for other sports is difficult to say
because every sport is subtly different. The key ingredients are,
to be frank, a ruthless approach to excellence. It is not just
about winning. It is about taking part, but it is about taking
part in a mission to be the best, which is the bit missing from
de Coubertin's quote. If you have a lot of people in national
programmes who are just enjoying themselves and are there and
like going abroad, you fail. If you get down to the few athletes
and staff who really want to make a difference, you train them
professionally and you resource them adequately.
Q151 Mr Bacon: Is your role now in
essence to liaise with the performance advisers to each of the
national governing bodies for each of the different sports and
make sure that they understand what you have just said and what
you did in cycling so they can deliver the same in each of their
sports? Is that it?
Mr Keen: Yes, it is a significant
part of my brief.
Q152 Chairman: Thank you very much.
It has been a very interesting hearing; rather different from
our normal line of work so we found it very interesting. Ms Nicholl,
you were planning to spend £1.7 million for each medal at
the last Olympics and it cost £2.4 million so we hope you
do better next time. May I thank both you and Mr Keen? You are
both on a difficult wicket, but you have performed with great
charm and commitment today and we are very grateful for your obvious
enthusiasm.
Dame Sue Street: Chairman, would
you mind if I boringly made one correction for the record? I said
earlier, right at the beginning, that UK Sport has responsibility
for the talent pathway now; I understand that is from 1 April.
The other thing is to say that there should be no doubt about
the complete commitment of the Government, of this Department,
of UK Sport and everyone else to stage a magnificent Olympic Games
in 2012.
Chairman: For the record, I must withdraw
my unfortunate remark about Australian culture. The Clerk is relaying
our apologies to Sir Les Paterson, the Minister for Culture. Thank
you very much.
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