Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60-79)
CROWN PROSECUTION
SERVICE
8 MARCH 2006
Q60 Mr Davidson: But if you are getting
five wins to two defeats as it were in cases that actually get
to court, I should draw from that, given that you started off
with 100 and only two are actually being acquitted, that the bar
has perhaps been set too high.
Mr Macdonald: As you said, a large
number of these cases are cases where the plea of guilty is a
sure-fire thing. When you are looking at whether we are applying
the right test of just over 50%, what you need to look at is the
acquittal rate in contested trials, because those are the cases
at the margins.
Q61 Mr Davidson: The marginal rate,
as it were, the marginal balance that you are doing, is 50%.
Mr Macdonald: Yes. In the cases
at the margins, that is where people are pleading not guilty because
they think they have a chance. If the conviction rate were in
the mid-50s or as high as 70%, that would be about right. I should
not look at the overall rate because, as you say, there are too
many people pleading guilty who do not have a defence, but if
the contested trial rate is where it is, that is about right.
Q62 Mr Davidson: May I just look
at the chart on page 45 which shows "Cracked and ineffective
trials as a percentage of all trials by criminal justice area"?
I am struck by the difference between Warwickshire at one extreme
and Bedfordshire at the other. Do you have a target figure that
areas ought to be satisfied with or dissatisfied if they go above?
Mr Macdonald: We have a target
figure for reducing ineffective trials and they are reducing since
2002.
Q63 Mr Davidson: What is the target?
Mr Macdonald: They have gone down
from 31%.
Q64 Mr Davidson: No; what is the
target?
Mr Macdonald: We are doing better
than the target at the moment. The target is about 23% and we
are down at 21% and it has reduced from 31%.
Q65 Mr Davidson: Sorry; we need to
be clear. The target is 21% in cracked and ineffective trials?
Mr Macdonald: Ineffective trials.
Q66 Mr Davidson: I am looking at
the chart on page 45 where the average is actually below 15% and
there is none above 20%.
Mr Macdonald: This is cracked
and ineffective; there is no target for those as a combination
because they cover too many variations. I should never lump cracked
trials and ineffective trials together. The cracked trial is a
trial where you get a result, someone pleads guilty; an ineffective
trial is just a trial that does not happen. We are ahead of trajectory
on ineffective trials; the rate has come down from 31% to below
20% in the last three years.
Q67 Mr Davidson: How wide a variation
is there?
Mr Macdonald: Across the areas?
It is not huge; the variations across any of our areas are not
huge. As you know, we have put our national conviction rate on
our website now and if you strip out the top two and the bottom
two, which are both small areas where there are going to be variations,
our conviction rate varies from about 81% to 88% across the whole
of England and Wales.
Q68 Mr Davidson: It was not the conviction
rate as much as the trials which are aborted as a result of difficulties
at your end; that was what I was really looking for.
Mr Macdonald: We are ahead of
trajectory. The target for ineffective trials was 23% in quarter
four of 2005-06 and it is 19% in quarter four of 2007-08. I am
quite sure we are going to meet that, we are almost there already.
Q69 Mr Davidson: And the variation?
Mr Macdonald: I am not sure what
the variation is. I imagine there would be a variation, but I
am not sure whether I have the figures. I am not sure whether
we keep those figures actually.
Q70 Mr Davidson: Surely you must
have the figures for variation.
Mr Macdonald: We can certainly
get the figures off our system for you. I do not have them immediately
to hand. You want to know the variation in ineffective trial rates
across our different areas?
Q71 Mr Davidson: That is right. I
am astonished actually that you cannot tell me which areas are
worst and I was going to follow that by asking what precisely
you are doing about those ones.
Mr Macdonald: I am sure I can
tell you: I just do not have the figures to hand. We can certainly
extract them from the system. These are DCA figures incidentally
not our figures. These are court figures which will be kept by
the DCA. I am sure they have them and I am sure we can have them
supplied to you.[2]
Q72 Mr Davidson: Let me just be clear
about this though. Ineffective trials would be trials which collapsed
because of difficulties on your side.
Mr Macdonald: No, they are trials
which do not take place on the date that they were due to take
place.
Q73 Mr Davidson: Remind me of the
category of those that collapsed because of difficulties on your
side?
Mr Macdonald: It is about one
in 10.
Q74 Mr Davidson: One in ten. Comparing
those then for which you could be held accountable, is there a
variation between areas?
Mr Macdonald: I am sure there
will be a variation, but we should have to get those figures.
I am sure we can get those figures for you.
Q75 Mr Davidson: Can you understand
why I am slightly surprised, since you are in charge of the Service,
that you are not aware which of your areas are the worst in terms
of the figures for trials collapsing because of factors under
your control?
Mr Macdonald: We have area performance
reviews with all of our areas every four months or so, and they
come with all of their figures. We look at the performance; I
sit down with Mr Foster, the Chief Crown Prosecutor and the area
business manager for each of our areas and go through all of their
figures for ineffective trials, for all of the HCA usage, delays,
all that sort of thing. We go through all of their performance
figures with them regularly and there is no sense in which we
are not on top of what is happening in different parts of the
country. We have quite rigorous performance management.
Q76 Mr Davidson: But you cannot tell
me who is worst.
Mr Macdonald: I cannot tell you
off the top of my head which is the worst and which is the best.
Q77 Chairman: It is not quite clear
why Lincolnshire is poorly performing. It is not the most difficult
of counties to police; it is a rural county not a big inner city
area but they are poorly performing.
Mr Macdonald: Sometimes, in smaller
areas, particularly when you are talking about cracked trials,
these figures can be affected disproportionately by quite small
numbers of cases. We found in the conviction figures that the
top two and the bottom two were both very small areas, so that
a few cases, one way or another, can affect things.
Mr Foster: In the case of Lincolnshire
it is because there is a very high number of magistrates' courts.
Q78 Chairman: We do not want to talk
about that, because we want to keep them, thank you.
Mr Macdonald: Of course that is
an issue Chairman.
Q79 Chairman: No, it is not. I do
not want you closing any more thank you very much, for spurious
reasons of inefficiency when your own organisation is responsible
for a lot of this, not having small local magistrates' courts
in touch with the people.
Mr Macdonald: But it makes it
even more likely that cases will be switched between courts and
you will have lawyers who have not had a chance to prepare those
cases arguing them.
2 Ev 21-23 Back
| 
