Examination of Witnesses (Question 440-445)
MR KEVIN
FRANKLIN, MR
MARK FUCHTER,
MR DAVID
GREEN QC, MR
DAVID RICHARDSON
AND MS
HELEN WOLKIND
25 MAY 2006
Q440 Linda Gilroy: We were discussing
the difficulties of prosecution earlier. On policing intangible
transfers, can you give the Committee a feel for how you go about
doing that and some indication of how you would like us to measure
your success in doing so? If it is not by prosecution, what is
it?
Mr Fuchter: It is fair to say
that to our knowledge, since these controls came in, we have received
no allegations about intangible transfers, and no intelligence.
It is, obviously, an untested area.
Q441 Linda Gilroy: So is it an area
where you rely on the intelligence again?
Mr Fuchter: Yes. We are intelligence-driven,
yes.
Q442 Linda Gilroy: It is certainly
something that arose in the evidence that we received from industry,
where they felt that there was a lightness of touch as far as
looking at what might be going on in the form of intangibles in
universities and academic institutions.
Mr Fuchter: Yes. I am aware of
the issues around universities. Those do not involve HMRC, but
I think one of the questions I would need to ask the industry
representatives who have spoken to this Committee is that they
may be able to help us, and maybe it is perfectly fair that we
might prompt the intelligence agencies, through the Restricted
Enforcement Unit, to be looking in a different direction.
Q443 Linda Gilroy: Is it possible
that is a lacuna where there is no activity really going on proactively
at the moment?
Mr Fuchter: I think our assessment
at the moment is that it is not a lacuna as such, it is just that
there is no activity being reported to us that requires us to
take action.
Chairman: Unless there is any final question
from any of my colleagues.
Q444 Mike Gapes: Given the way in
which globalisation is happening and the sheer volume of containers
in international trade—I have just been in China and have
seen the new container terminals being built—would it be
fair to say that you are never going to be able to catch up with
all of this and the reality is that, basically, globalisation
is going at such a pace that technologies are going to be transferred
and dual use goods are going to be sent around, and that you are
just simply chasing your tail?
Mr Fuchter: No, I do not think
so. This Committee will know better than I do the extent of the
intelligence that is deployed in this area by the intelligence
agencies and by the Ministry of Defence. I have no doubt that
that intelligence will continue to be deployed and we will be
able to respond to it. However, we are intelligence-driven, and
by virtue of the very point that you make, the sheer volumetrics,
I think there would be an outcry if we were to decide to stop
large numbers of containers purely on the grounds that they might
contain X or they might contain Y; we need to be intelligence-
and risk-driven. Increasingly, another response to this, of course,
is to automate our screening ever better, and we have got some
pilots within our organisation not yet extended to exports, but
I think in the future, as globalisation grows, we would like to
see increasingly automated screening and more sophisticated profiling—by
that I mean a greater number of indicators against which the machine
can screen cargo so the whole thing moves a lot more quickly.
That is for the future, and the globalisation "just in time"
environment you are describing.
Q445 Chairman: Can I thank you very
much indeed. I think it has been a very helpful session and, if
I might say, I think you have answered our questions very fully
and we do appreciate the time and effort you have put in, and
for the written submission. We appreciate very much the difficult
job you have to do, and I am sure you appreciate the job that
we have to do, and it may be, since this is the first time we
have had the opportunity of inviting you to give evidence to the
Committee, the Committee may wish to give you an annual invitation,
given your important role in the strategic export control regime.
Again, on behalf of my colleagues and myself, thank you very much
indeed.
Mr Fuchter: Thank you.
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