Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-148)
DR STEPHEN
LADYMAN, IAN
PEARSON, MR
JOHN GRUBB
AND MR
DAVID ROBERTS
29 MARCH 2006
Q140 Chairman: What conclusions came
out of that?
Dr Ladyman: The conclusion was
a resolution which I may be able to quote to you. It was a presidential
statement on the situation in Somalia, which the Security Council
issued on 15 March of this year, and it said, the Security Council
". . . encourages Member States whose naval vessels and military
aircraft operate in international waters and airspace adjacent
to the coast of Somalia to be vigilant to any incident of piracy
therein and to take appropriate action to protect merchant shipping,
in particular the transportation of humanitarian aid, against
any such act, in line with relevant international law." That
came about precisely because of my request to the Secretary General
of the IMO and then his request to the Security Council and the
co-operation of the UK presidency on the Security Council in order
to raise its prominence in the Security Council.
Q141 Chairman: Is there any likelihood
that the advice on security to UK-registered vessels will change
as a result of the discussions which were held at international
level?
Dr Ladyman: We keep the advice
we give to UK vessels under constant review. If we think it is
necessary to change our advice, it will change.
Q142 Chairman: Has it been changed
recently or improved or altered in any way?
Dr Ladyman: I think we have revised
it several times, have we not? Mr Grubb will be able to give precise
dates of when we have changed it.
Mr Grubb: If you are talking about
advice on piracy, that is under constant review, and we have a
research programme in place to support that. As and when new technologies
come along or new evidence of methods which might be deployed
against attacks, that is what we would issue. It has not been
a regular feature because, as I said earlier, there have not been
that many developments. If you are talking about counter-terrorism,
there are constant changes to how we talk about the threats and
risks in different parts of the world and the different measures
which might be used and arrangements which we might negotiate
with other ports in those areas in how to deal with it.
Dr Ladyman: The Counter-Piracy
Guidance was first issued in 1998, it has been up-dated twice
and the last revision was during 2005. The Marine Guidance Note,
number 298, is distributed free of charge throughout the industry
and it is even on the Department's website.
Q143 Chairman: Yes, but you will
know—and these are really ministerial, policy decisions—there
is considerable disquiet in the industry as to whether the existing
international agreements cover and protect UK flagged vessels
in sufficient manner. Is there any debate going on within the
Department for Transport, within the FCO, as to whether these
international laws should be changed and whether there should
be tighter agreements or whether there should be some extension
of the policy of using armed vessels against pirates? Are these
matters being debated or are we in effect simply reacting when
there is another incident reported?
Dr Ladyman: The Department for
Transport and the Foreign Office are debating these issues and,
as I said earlier, we have regular contact at official level to
discuss whether the situation is changing, whether we need to
change our guidance, whether we need to work harder on particular
activities, either on the international front or with the industry,
and people always have access to ministers to suggest that we
need changes in ministerial policy.
Q144 Chairman: Is it unfair to suggest
that because piracy somehow or other is regarded as almost a subject
for levity or amusement that this is not given sufficient weight
either by the general public or by debate at government level?
Dr Ladyman: I am not responsible
for whatever attitudes the general public take, I am afraid, but,
yes, it is unfair to suggest it is taken lightly by the Government.
We take it very seriously. It is armed criminality against UK
citizens, and whether it is against UK citizens or non-UK citizens,
we take that very seriously.
Q145 Chairman: Is there therefore
a special responsibility on Her Majesty's Government to raise
the profile of the shipping industry and debate in public the
impact of piracy upon what is, after all, our fundamentally most
important form of transport?
Dr Ladyman: As far as the image
and the profile of the shipping industry are concerned, it has
been right at the top of my agenda since I was appointed to this
job. I made it one of my priorities, for example, in our UK Presidency
of the European Union. I have had numerous meetings with the Chamber
of Shipping, with NUMAST, with the RMT, with representatives of
individual shipping companies, to try and do that. I have spent
half my life talking at public events to try and raise the profile
of British shipping. I am somewhat surprised to hear that the
Chamber of Shipping and NUMAST feel this is such an under-considered
issue that they feel it necessary to come to you and give evidence
but did not feel it necessary to pick up the telephone and tell
me they had concerns about it.
Q146 Chairman: I do not think we
need to be too touchy about it. The real problem is a common one,
that if people feel themselves under attack, they do have a right
to express that view.
Dr Ladyman: Absolutely but would
it not have been appropriate for them to express it to the Department
for Transport and the Foreign Office? If they have genuine evidence
that issues were not being addressed seriously enough, we could
deal with it.
Q147 Chairman: I am glad to hear
that and before you go we will give you the letter which the Foreign
Office lost.
Ian Pearson: I have already said
that we do not necessarily accept we have lost it.
Q148 Chairman: I thought you would
like to have the information.
Ian Pearson: We would certainly
like to have the information and we will check our records. I
wanted to point out as well, at a European level, the principal
forum for addressing piracy is the EU Law of the Sea working group
known as COMAR. As the United Kingdom we have made presentations
to COMAR on the issue of piracy and our strategy during the year,
so we have been trying to raise the profile of this issue internationally.
Chairman: Good. On that highly satisfactory
note, thank you all for coming. You have been very tolerant. I
am sorry we had to make you wait but it was, as they say, due
to matters beyond our control.
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