Examination of Witness (Questions 104-119)
MR ALEC
ROBERTSON
26 APRIL 2006
Q104 Chairman: Good afternoon, Mr Robertson.
I am sorry to have kept you waiting. Would you be kind enough
to identify yourself?
Mr Robertson: Certainly. I am
Alec Robertson. I am Chairman of the British Transport Police
Federation. Unlike Mr Brown and Mr Johnston, I have never served
in the Metropolitan Police force and I have 28 years' service
in the British Transport Police.
Q105 Chairman: Thank you very much. Did
you have something you wanted to say before we start questions?
Mr Robertson: No. I am quite happy
to take questions straightaway.
Q106 Chairman: Is the British Transport
Police fit for the 21st century?
Mr Robertson: I think so. I think
the four reviews in the last five years have come to the conclusion
that we are fit for our purpose. Things move on and we are open
to change, but I certainly think that all those reviews came to
that conclusion.
Q107 Mr Goodwill: Mr Robertson, I
have a question which I think has been thrown up by some of the
other police mergers around the country and which is of direct
interest to your members, and that is with regard to pension provision.
Have you any information with regard to the relative health of
the pension provision in the Met or in the British Transport Police?
Mr Robertson: Certainly within
British Transport Police we believe that there would be a TUPE
so that if people within British Transport Police had to join
the Met, or whatever the case may be, we could stick to the same
pension arrangements. What difficulty that would create in the
Metropolitan Police I really do not know.
Q108 Mr Goodwill: But you do not
have any information on the funds in reserve for pensions and
whether both were equally well funded?
Mr Robertson: British Transport
Police has a cash-rich fund. The Home Office obviously do not
have the same type of situation. How that would transfer across
I really do not know.
Q109 Mr Goodwill: I think your members
might be interested to know.
Mr Robertson: They certainly would,
yes.
Q110 Chairman: I did not ask you
whether in fact you support the Metropolitan Police taking control
of the British Transport Police.
Mr Robertson: I have a view.
Q111 Chairman: That is what we are
here to hear, Mr Robertson. I never knew a policeman who did not
have views and differences are likely to come up.
Mr Robertson: When I heard Mr
Brown talking about London there, I think he missed a point in
that people come into London; they do not all live in London.
When they use the trains they come from elsewhere and they go
back elsewhere, so if he is talking about London and the British
Transport Police, we transport people into the capital and back
out when they return from work, or whatever the case may be, so
it is not all about London. With regard to the view of the Metropolitan
Police taking over London as a whole, you can rest assured, I
think, that British Transport Police would no longer exist, and
I have to say that for my members that would be catastrophic.
Q112 Mr Martlew: What are your views
on the privatisation of the British Transport Police?
Mr Robertson: Again it goes back
to the fact that there has been that much said about British Transport
Police over the last six years and, as for any option, we would
have to look at it closely. I certainly think that if it was in
the best interest of my members I would support it. If it was
not in the best interests of my members I certainly would not
support it.
Q113 Mr Martlew: It is a politician's
answer, is it not?
Mr Robertson: Absolutely.
Q114 Mr Martlew: What are the views
of your members on the idea of private security on the stations?
Mr Robertson: Obviously, 7 July
was a turning point. If the public feel safe in seeing security
or CSOs, or whatever the case may be, I do not have a strong view
on it. As long as British Transport Police have fully trained,
full time officers to deal with crime on the railways, if other
people are doing other jobs within that and it makes people feel
secure and safe, I would fully welcome it.
Q115 Mr Martlew: So you would see
them as a helpful addition, not as a replacement?
Mr Robertson: It is not a replacement.
It is part of the police family.
Q116 Mrs Ellman: How do you think
low level crime on trains would be affected if the Met took over?
Mr Robertson: I think it would
be affected. I think the Met have their own particular problems.
If there was a call to deal with something of low level on the
Underground in Oxford Street and something on the street in Oxford
Street, I think the Underground or the rail station would get
left alone. They would prioritise and I think the priority would
not be low level crime on the railway or the Underground.
Q117 Mrs Ellman: What about the funding?
What would you say to the Met view that there would be a pooling
of resources and that it would have greater resources to deal
with these problems?
Mr Robertson: I have not seen
their business plan. It was just a comment that was made today
and until I see that I really do not know where the information
comes from.
Q118 Mrs Ellman: Have you been aware
of any discussions with the Met about problems of communication
or co-ordination in policing?
Mr Robertson: No, I have not.
Obviously, I heard Sir Ian Blair say that their radios did not
work on the Underground on 7 July. British Transport Police radios
do not work unless we take on Underground radios, and I believe
that was open to the Metropolitan Police a few years ago.
Q119 Mrs Ellman: So you are not aware
of any discussions taking place?
Mr Robertson: No. I think that
would be a matter for the Chief Officers' Group.
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