Examination of Witness (Questions 240-252)
DEREK TWIGG
MP AND HAZEL
BLEARS MP
26 APRIL 2006
Q240 Chairman: Do you think there
is a proper role for the British Transport Police in ensuring
that the railways are safe from terrorist attack?
Derek Twigg: Absolutely, yes.
They do have a clear role in terms of their security and involvement
in that.
Q241 Chairman: Do you have any evidence
at all that their co-ordination with other agencies does not provide
a secure railway and Underground system?
Derek Twigg: I have no evidence
that is the case, Chairman. Whether that could be improved is
another issue, of course.
Q242 Chairman: Have you any suggestions
from any of the players in this particular reorganisation that
there is something fundamentally flawed in the status quo and,
therefore, automatically it should be changed?
Derek Twigg: In terms of security
or generally?
Q243 Chairman: In terms of security.
Derek Twigg: No, I have not, but
in terms of what has happened it is right we do review that and
see whether there are any lessons to be learned and whether any
improvements can be made.
Q244 Mr Leech: Has anybody in either
of the two Departments seen any details about how it would work
if the decision was made to move the British Transport Police
into strategic forces? Has anyone seen any detailed plans at all?
Derek Twigg: We have not in that
sense. If I can speak from the Department, because we have been
undertaking the review of the British Transport Police and not
the Home Office, there were a number of options and I outlined
before why we have discounted them. If we had decided on the Metropolitan
Police, for instance, we would have had to have done a lot more
work in terms of how we would achieve that but for the reasons
I outlined previously we have decided not to go down that road.
If as a result of the refocusing work that we are doing now, which
is the main part of the work we are doing, we found some major
problem and we wanted to go into more detail and re-examine whether
we should put railway policing out to the strategic forces, clearly
we would have to undertake quite a great deal more work.
Q245 Mr Leech: How can you make a
decision on whether or not the British Transport Police should
remain, if you have not looked at what the alternatives would
be?
Derek Twigg: We have. As I have
said, we have certainly looked at a number of options and I have
explained to you some of the reasons why we have discounted them.
What I am trying to say to you is that what that has led us to
believe is that refocusing is where most of our work should be.
It does not mean to say that will be our final decision, but that
is where most of our work is.
Q246 Mr Leech: No one seems to have
the faintest idea what would happen, how the British Transport
Police would be merged into the strategic forces. For instance,
we have heard this afternoon it costs more to train a member of
the British Transport Police because of the specialist training
they have to have on the railways, and we are not given any indication
whether or not every single police officer would have to go through
that training if they were merged into the strategic forces. Clearly
there are quite significant financial implications doing something
like that. I would have thought those sort of issues would be
issues you would have looked at before you make a decision about
refocusing efforts, refocusing the work of the British Transport
Police or possibly looking at merging them into the strategic
forces. Surely that sort of work should have been done?
Derek Twigg: We did look at a
number of options, and early on we seemed to be able to focus
on two, which is basically whether we focus on a strategic force
or look at refocusing the current police force. If we decided
those the main options we wanted to look at, we would clearly
have to do a lot more work on it.
Q247 Mr Leech: What you seem to be
saying is that really you are just looking at refocusing the work
of the British Transport Police, you are not really considering—
Derek Twigg: I think you are misunderstanding,
Mr Leech. It has been set out in the paper to the Committee and
a number of options looked at in terms of the Metropolitan Police,
in terms of strategic forces and in terms of refocusing the current
British Transport Police Force. We have looked at that and if
we felt at an early stage that was worthy of further consideration,
for instance in terms of the Metropolitan Police, then we would
continue to do some more detailed work. But we have not. The early
indications are that these are the two options we want to look
at and what we want to put most of our time and resources into
in terms of finding what would be the best particular option for
policing the railway.
Q248 Mr Leech: But there do not appear
to be any details about how you would merge the British Transport
Police into the strategic forces.
Derek Twigg: As I tried to explain,
if in the next few weeks we find refocusing the current British
Transport Police is not what we want to pursue, clearly we would
have to put more work into looking at the strategic forces.
Q249 Chairman: You could help us
by telling us which other police forces outside the Metropolitan
Police have asked to take over control of transport police in
their own area.
Derek Twigg: There are none.
Q250 Mr Leech: None at all?
Derek Twigg: Not that I am aware
of, no.
Q251 Chairman: But if this is such
a fantastically good scheme would you not have thought all those
policemen in Liverpool and Cheshire, where we lead all police
forces naturally, would have rushed forward with a plan?
Derek Twigg: I share your empathy
with that part of the world, Mrs Dunwoody.
Q252 Chairman: You had better or
you will have a short career!
Derek Twigg: I would not dare
not to! This is the point I opened up with and tried to make clear,
when looking at the progress which has taken place, looking at
the review of the strategic forces, we believe it is right to
review the BTP at this particular time, and that is the reason
we are doing it.
Chairman: We are just trying to find
out who is doing what, Minister. You have been very helpful, both
of you. I apologise for starting without you, Ms Blears. It has
been very informative and I hope your connectivity will continue.
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