Examination of Witnesses (Questions 59-79)
MR PAUL
PLUMMER, MS
JANET GOODLAND,
MR ROB
HOLDEN, MR
THEO STEEL
AND MR
PAUL SMITH
19 OCTOBER 2005
Q59 Chairman: Good afternoon to you,
gentlemen. You are most warmly welcome here this afternoon. I
was so overwhelmed with the importance of our other elected representatives
I forgot to ask them to identify themselves for the record. I
apologise to the shorthand writers. I am just a new Chairman but
I will get used to it soon. Can I ask you therefore, gentlemen,
if you will identify yourselves this afternoon?
Mr Smith: My name is Paul Smith.
I am Director, London Support, for the Association of Train Operating
Companies.
Mr Steel: Theo Steel, representing
ATOC this afternoon but I work for one Railway.
Mr Plummer: Paul Plummer, Director
of Planning and Regulation, Network Rail.
Ms Goodland: Janet Goodland, Director,
Network Development at Network Rail.
Mr Holden: I am Rob Holden, the
Chairman of London & Continental Railways.
Q60 Mrs Ellman: Would you say that winning
the Olympics has been a face-saver for phase two of the Channel
Tunnel Rail Link?
Mr Holden: Absolutely not. I do
not believe the Olympics is a face-saver for section two of the
Channel Tunnel Rail Link. Section two combined with section one
will improve journey times for international travellers. The link
provides an improved domestic service for travellers in Kent and
is a major catalyst for the regeneration at King's Cross, Stratford,
and indeed throughout the Ebbsfleet valley. We will be providing
a service to the Olympic Games, which, of course, we are very
pleased to be involved with.
Q61 Mrs Ellman: Yet the National Audit
Office says that the economic case remains marginal. Do you disagree
with that? Have they got it wrong?
Mr Holden: The Channel Tunnel
Rail Link is a very long term project which will be with us for
very many years into the future and it is very early in its life
to be able to judge its success or otherwise. It would be right
to judge it after the railway comes into being and we see the
usage and indeed the regeneration which will take place in the
three areas I have just referred to.
Q62 Mrs Ellman: Will the services stop
at Stratford International when the Games open?
Mr Holden: During the Games the
international service that is stopping at Stratford will be suspended
in order to allow all the facilities at Stratford International
to be used for the proposed Javelin Service, which is a domestic
service which will run between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet.
Q63 Mrs Ellman: But will services stop
at Stratford International in 2007?
Mr Holden: That is a decision
which will have to be made by Eurostar and the companies which
currently work together to provide the Eurostar service. It is
my understanding that they are currently looking at timetable
options and I hope that in the next several months they will be
able to say what their stopping pattern will be when they open
in 2007.
Q64 Mrs Ellman: Will the trains stop
at Stratford when the Games have ended? Is there going to be a
real legacy?
Mr Holden: When the Games have
finished I would expect that the timetable will resume to that
which was in existence before the Games but, of course, there
could be very many alterations to the timetable between 2007 and
2012.
Q65 Mrs Ellman: So what does that mean
in terms of providing a legacy?
Mr Holden: Stratford station will
be available for services in 2007 and will continue in operation
thereafter. It is very much part of the integrated Kent franchise
and a stopping station for domestic trains on the Channel Tunnel
Rail Link.
Q66 Mr Clelland: Is the construction
timetable running to time?
Mr Holden: Yes. We expect to open
in 2007, which is the year we have been working to for some considerable
time. As some members of the committee saw earlier this week,
there is a great deal of activity complete in terms of a track
down all the way between the junction with section one at Fawkham
Junction through to the King's Cross lands. The last area to be
complete is the refurbishment of the Barlow shed which is well
under way.
Q67 Mr Clelland: You had a fire, did
you not, in the Swanscombe, Kent, tunnel on 16 August? How much
damage did that do? How much delay is that going to cause?
Mr Holden: We do not expect that
will cause any delay at all. It is very regrettable that there
were two fatalities involved in that incident, but fortunately
there was very little damage to the railway and in fact it will
not delay things at all.
Q68 Mr Clelland: So The Times
got it wrong when they said it would delay the opening by between
six and 18 months?
Mr Holden: I am afraid I do not
know where The Times got that from.
Q69 Mr Scott: What is your reaction to
the statement by the Mayor of London to the GLO that he thought
the journeys for domestic rail services were likely to be the
weak link in the transport for the Olympics?
Mr Plummer: I am very surprised
about that, but clearly we are working very closely with all of
the parties to develop a railway not just for the purpose of the
Olympics but generally. We have made a huge amount of progress
in that respect in the last few years and we have a pretty good
record in terms of delivery of major projects such as those that
will be required to do this. Perhaps we can go into more detail
on some of those projects with some of your other questions but
they are specified in quite a lot of detail and we will be delivering
them as planned.
Q70 Mr Scott: So the Mayor is wrong?
Mr Plummer: I think we are capable
of delivering the transport that is required for the Games.
Q71 Chairman: An assertion, Mr Plummer,
although comforting, is not usually very good evidence. Are you
really saying to us that you have a timetable, that you are starting
on the projects? Do you want to tell us a little bit about these
projects that you are so sure about?
Mr Plummer: I will ask Janet Goodland
to talk about the individual projects. There are some major pieces
of work which clearly do have a lot more work to be done on them
to develop the detailed plans, but we are on good progress to
develop those.
Ms Goodland: We are working closely
with Transport for London and the shadow OTA organisation to develop
the projects. We have identified which projects need to go forward.
We are working hard to scope them out and identify the dates by
which they all need to be delivered. On one of the major projects,
Stratford station and regeneration programme there, we have got
a joint programme going forward with TfL and the various constituent
parts of TfL and we are working very closely with them to integrate
everybody's plans. There is some work planned to the north London
line to improve capacity there. Again, we are working very closely
with TfL on that project, trying to get that complete for 2010
so that it will be available for the test events at the venues.
Q72 Clive Efford: Can I ask Network Rail
what is the current position regarding the shuttle service and
the movement of passengers from King's Cross to the Thameslink
station at Pentonville Road? Are there any plans to introduce
the shuttle link service to make it unnecessary for them to walk
along the road and link up with the Thameslink service?
Ms Goodland: You mean to open
the Thameslink box?
Q73 Clive Efford: Yes.
Ms Goodland: We are working closely
with government about that at the moment and we are hoping that
we will find a way forward with that very shortly.
Q74 Clive Efford: Have you had any discussions
about the funding for that? Can you give us any indications about
whether you have been able to obtain funding?
Mr Plummer: We are discussing
that funding at the moment with the Department for Transport and
the Office of Rail Regulation. We are certainly keen to take that
work forward and, subject to those discussions, we hope to do
so very shortly.
Q75 Clive Efford: You are confident that
the position of the government at this moment in time will mean
that the Thameslink 2000 will be ready for the Olympics?
Mr Plummer: We are discussing
the works in relation to the fit out of the box and the funding
of that. The main project is a different matter from what I thought
you were asking.
Q76 Clive Efford: But the two are dependent
on one another, are they not?
Ms Goodland: You can have the
box independently of the rest of the Thameslink project. The rest
of the Thameslink project is currently the subject of a public
inquiry which is sitting at the moment and is due to complete
in November. We would then expect a Secretary of State decision
perhaps some time in the middle of next year and that will be
when the funding will be sorted out with the Department for Transport.
If that is done within that timescale I think a portion of Thameslink
2000 can be delivered in time for the Olympics. The important
part is that we make sure that things that will benefit the Olympics
are done first.
Q77 Clive Efford: Will all of the associated
works at King's Cross station relating to 2012 be ready on time?
Ms Goodland: Again, there are
some very complicated interactions at Kings Cross. There are the
works that London Underground have currently got on site with
their Northern ticket hall where the work is currently suspended
and waiting to be reinstated. There are the works that London
& Continental Railways are doing and the works that the developers
Argent wish to do. We are working very closely with all those
parties to make sure we have an integrated programme which means
that all station facilities should be available for 2012.
Q78 Clive Efford: What about accessibility?
Is there any requirement on your private partners to ensure that
these stations are fully accessible?
Ms Goodland: All the new works
will be fully accessible and what we are looking at currently
is the extent to which other stations can be made accessible in
the time frame.
Q79 Clive Efford: Are you saying that
not all the existing stations will be fully accessible by 2012?
Mr Plummer: All the existing major
stations which Network Rail manages will be accessible. The new
stations being built for the Olympics will be accessible. We are
working again with the Department for Transport in terms of the
work they are doing to prioritise expenditure on improving access
to stations across the country as a whole and clearly this will
be one of the issues that they wish to take account of in that.
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