Examination of Witnesses (Questions 380-399)
MR RICHARD
CABORN MP, MS
KAREN BUCK
MP AND MR
BEN STAFFORD
9 NOVEMBER 2005
Q380 Chairman: Do you want to look at
this?
Ms Buck: It is being looked at
on a very active basis.
Q381 Chairman: Once you have stopped
looking at all these things, you will give us a little note as
to what conclusions you have reached? Mr Stafford, you are going
to have the joyous task of writing this note. Do you want to tell
us what is going to be in it?
Mr Stafford: As the Minister said,
the department is looking very closely at it.
Q382 Chairman: I think we have taken
on board that the department is having a wonderful time, looking
at all sorts of difficult problems. We are just boring; we want
to know what the solutions are.
Mr Stafford: Clearly one solution
is that you actually build the thing before 2012.
Q383 Chairman: That indeed would be a
solution. Indeed not building it would also be a solution, but
of the different kind!
Mr Stafford: I should have said
it would have been the best solution.
Q384 Chairman: Perhaps that is better.
Mr Stafford: Just to clarify what
the Minister was saying, in the run-up to preparing the bid the
Thameslink box was not a scheme which was included in the bid
as such.
Q385 Chairman: At that time. However,
you have now looked at it in great length and in great depth and
you have concluded—
Mr Stafford: At the time TfL modelled
carefully whether you could run the Javelin service and the other
services around King's Cross without it and they found that you
could. However, as you can probably imagine, you are not necessarily
going to have the best possible experience, and there we are looking
very carefully at whether or not—
Q386 Chairman: That is one way of describing
it but people might put it in rather more Anglo-Saxon terms.
Ms Buck: What we cannot say to
you today is that we have a conclusion—
Q387 Chairman: You have a conclusion;
tell us what it is.
Ms Buck: No, I cannot say that
to you today. All I can assure you is that we take your point
and it is being looked at.
Chairman: Anyway, Minister, I know that
you would like to avail yourself of the drafting skills of Mr
Stafford and let us have a note on that, too. We have got lots
of homework for you. Mr Clelland?
Q388 Mr Clelland: The Committee has previously
discussed the 400 metres between Stratford Regional and Stratford
International Stations and how that might be linked. The Docklands
Light Railway extension, which is planned to be completed in 2009,
has been put up as an adequate substitute for a travelator. Do
you have any comment on that?
Ms Buck: Whether it is a travelator
or other "mechanised link", as it is described in the
planning permission, is to be negotiated between Union Railways
and the London Borough of Newham. We think yes that the DLR extension
will provide us with what we need to meet those needs at the stations.
Q389 Mr Clelland: So we do not need a
travelator?
Ms Buck: We do not believe that
the travelator is an essential part of delivering the Olympic
provision at Stratford Station.
Q390 Chairman: Why do you think then
it was originally in the planning permission?
Ms Buck: Discussions—
Q391 Chairman: Forgive me, if the Department
has concluded it is no longer necessary I am sure you have done
that on the basis of very careful and most expert advice. Why
do you think it is no longer necessary?
Ms Buck: The issue is whether
this is essential for the Olympics and the answer is no it is
not essential, we think.
Q392 Chairman: So people can stagger
the 400 metres in some way?
Ms Buck: There are genuine questions
about how a travelator would operate and whether it is the right
way to provide that link and those discussions are on-going and
will continue to be on-going. I do not have a fixed view about
how that should be delivered in terms of the stations generally.
All I can say to you is we do not believe it is necessary for
the Olympics.
Mr Clelland: Eurostar currently have
considered not opening the international station until 2009 when
the Docklands Light Railway line is built. Is that something the
Minister finds acceptable?
Q393 Chairman: Mr Stafford?
Mr Stafford: I am afraid I cannot
really answer that point but we will happily provide you with
a note.
Q394 Chairman: Who can in your Department
answer that question, Mr Stafford, and why is he or she not here?
Mr Stafford: One of my colleagues
in railway projects who deals with Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL),
I am sure could answer the question. Coming back to your original
point, though, the CTRL is obviously essential for the Olympics,
and that is the date which I personally have been focusing on,
it being ready for 2012. Obviously when it actually opens to the
public and when it stops at Stratford will depend on whether there
are suitable facilities for people to get out at the station and
things like that. In terms of the travelator and the link between
the international station and the regional station, for the Olympics
the main passenger flows are going to be going from the international
station to the Olympic Park and the regional station to the Olympic
Park.
Q395 Chairman: We know the theory, Mr
Stafford; we went to have a look at it. We quite understand that
it is the intention for international passengers to come through
a different point and then put them on a shuttle and bring them
backwards and forwards, but it does not actually answer the question
in relation to movement between the two stations.
Mr Stafford: The movement between
the two stations is not really relevant for the Olympics because
the main reason why people will travel back in that direction
from the international station is largely to travel to other venues
to the south, for example in Greenwich or around Excel which they
will be able to do by using the DLR extension.
Q396 Mr Clelland: Yes but the travelator
was the Department's preferred method. That was the planning condition,
was it not, and now that has changed, has it?
Mr Stafford: No, the planning
condition is still there but how that is built and when it is
built is a matter for the London Borough of Newham and Union Railways.
Q397 Mr Clelland: So we could have the
DLR extension and a travelator link?
Mr Stafford: That is certainly
one option.
Ms Buck: A travelator is not essential
for the Olympics.
Q398 Mr Clelland: But has the travelator
necessarily been ruled out now because of the DLR?
Ms Buck: No, no, it is an on-going
discussion.
Q399 Chairman: It has not been ruled
out but it is not being built?
Ms Buck: It has not been ruled
out.
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