Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-154)
SIR ROY
MCNULTY,
MR JOHN
ARSCOTT, MR
MICHAEL BELL
AND DR
HARRY BUSH
11 JANUARY 2006
Q140 Mrs Ellman: Yes.
Sir Roy McNulty: The CAA indirectly
has no influence other than we are obviously a player in the European
aviation regulatory system and we do some work for EASA, but the
primary influence on EASA comes from two sources: one is the European
Commission itself; and the other is the EASA Management Board.
It is through the UK representation on the Management Board that
we have the most opportunity to influence things, but, as I have
said in my recital of problems to do with EASA, that Management
Board and the governance it provides is not yet up to standard.
Q141 Chairman: You are one vote in
23, Sir Roy? Is that what you are telling us?
Sir Roy McNulty: We are one vote
in 23.
Chairman: Thank you, as long as we can
establish that.
Q142 Mr Goodwill: How many of your
opposite numbers in these other EU Member States share your reservations
and would we have allies if we got a degree of back-tracking before
we got ourselves into this parlous situation which you forecast?
Sir Roy McNulty: I think a year
ago I would have said almost nobody. Today I think there are perhaps
five to 10 countries that are getting to have a view similar to
ours. There are a lot of countries, particularly the new Accession
States, who are not in the same area as we are in terms of regulatory
experience or anything like that. They do not have aviation industries
the size that we in the UK have or France has or Germany has,
but I think there is an emerging coalition of views, an emerging
common view that there are some serious problems and they need
to be addressed, but as yet I would not say the Commission are
fully on board and they are obviously very important in this.
Q143 Chairman: I want to allow you
to escape, but we have got so much we could continue to ask you.
Have you done any work on the health of cabin crews and crews
generally in relation to air quality?
Mr Bell: You are referring, Madam
Chairman, to the air quality issue that has been raised in a number
of forums?
Q144 Chairman: Yes. This Committee
was actually on one where air in the cabin became somewhat—
Mr Bell: We fully recognise that
this issue is one of considerable concern to quite a number of
people. What we are seeking is better evidence and we have instituted
or joined in on a research project which has been conducted and
we have an Aviation Health Working Group.
Q145 Chairman: Have you made that
clear to everybody because the pilots did not seem to know it
and did not seem to be too happy?
Mr Bell: Well, I think the problem
we have got here is that the UK CAA in this area has not got a
specific responsibility any longer for the design of the aircraft
and we have instituted requests to EASA to take a look at this
as well, as have the pilots' group.
Q146 Chairman: Have you told anybody
what you are doing or is it a secret?
Mr Bell: No, it is not a secret,
but I think it is fair to say that those who have requested us
to do something are not satisfied with what we are doing.
Q147 Chairman: Yes, I do wonder why!
What is your approach to complaints on the grounds of abuse of
dominant position by an airport operator outside the airports
review process?
Dr Bush: Well, if there were such
a complaint, we would consider it under section 41 of the Airports
Act, but there are alternative opportunities for people which
would also be to go to the OFT which has Competition Act powers
in respect of airports.
Q148 Chairman: You let BAA get its
£105 million back on the new runway at Stansted, did you
not?
Dr Bush: Actually no decision
has been made about that at all. I know this is probably what
you are being told by certain airlines at Stansted, but it is
not the case. At the moment we are out to consultation on the
criteria we might use in the current airports review to determine
how much of that money they will get.
Q149 Chairman: So it is not correct
that you backed off as soon as you were threatened with legal
action?
Dr Bush: We have not backed off
anything. We are out to consultation and that is what it means;
we have had some responses in and we are now considering them.
Q150 Chairman: Do you think the regulatory
reviews are too expensive and take too long?
Dr Bush: Well, it comes back to
the point that we made earlier, that the Competition Commission
element means that they are longer than they might otherwise be
and they are probably more expensive than they might otherwise
be.
Q151 Chairman: So is it true to say
that you do not understand the economic models underlying modern,
low-cost aviation?
Dr Bush: Well, I do not think
it is true to say that. Actually we have published only in December
a review of what we think the drivers of demand in the UK are,
whether it be price or whether it be income, so we are actually
engaged with the underlying economics of the aviation industry.
So I think that accusation is unfounded.
Q152 Chairman: The Airlines' Consultative
Committee at Stansted says that there is no appropriate structure
for dealing with airline complaints regarding the abuse of dominant
position by airports.
Dr Bush: Well, that is simply
untrue. They can either complain to us or they can complain to
the OFT, which has the role in relation to the Competition Act,
and they have not.
Q153 Chairman: I think what really,
Sir Roy, is very clear is that we are going to have to send you
a series of other questions and I would be grateful for a quick
turnaround and to have the answers quite quickly.
Sir Roy McNulty: We will do our
very best, Madam Chairman.
Q154 Chairman: Can I say to you all
that you have been very patient and very helpful. I do not know
that you have entirely reassured us. In fact, and you will forgive
me for saying this, I think you have put the wind up several of
us, but we are grateful to you for coming and doubtless we shall
meet again, as the witches say in Macbeth. Thank you very
much.
Sir Roy McNulty: We will look
forward to that.
Chairman: I do not know many almost perfect
men!
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