Examination of Witnesses (Questions 260-275)
MR STEPHEN
HICKEY, MISS
ROSEMARY THEW,
MR CLIVE
BENNETT, MR
PAUL MARKWICK
AND MR
STEPHEN TETLOW
8 FEBRUARY 2006
Q260 Mrs Ellman: You had a debtor,
£8 million. What was that in respect of?
Miss Thew: I am not sure.
Q261 Mrs Ellman: In the annual accounts
2004-05.
Miss Thew: I do not know what
the debtor is, I am afraid.
Q262 Chairman: It is payment of implementation
costs on the theory tests contract. It went from nil to £8
million, which is interesting.
Mr Hickey: If it was in relation
to the theory test contract, it was a residual dispute between
the previous contract, Prometric, and the DSA about whether or
not the DSA was or was not liable for some payments after the
contract technically ended. They claimed that DSA owed them for
some period after the contract ended. That dispute has now been
resolved, and I think that figure has not been realised.
Q263 Chairman: We need a little note
on that too, please. I am giving you lots of homework so you do
not get bored.
Mr Hickey: Yes.
Q264 Mrs Ellman: Will you have a
surplus or deficit in 2005-06?
Miss Thew: We will have a surplus.
The reason for the surplus is we had anticipated that we would
have more sites purchased for multi-purpose test centres. This
is as a result of the European legislation which requires us to
do different testing for motor cycles and our anticipation was
that we would have 20 sites during the course of 2005-06. In fact
those have not come into fruition and that has resulted in our
surplus.
Q265 Mrs Ellman: What level of contingency
does it maintain?
Miss Thew: Contingency for the
testing sites, do you mean?
Q266 Chairman: IF you are moving
from deficit to surplus, what degree?
Miss Thew: We are in surplus already,
we are not moving from deficit to surplus.
Q267 Mrs Ellman: You have a contingency
provision?
Miss Thew: I am not sure what
figure you are referring to here.
Q268 Chairman: We have some bottom
line figures, have we not? We want to know why you planned surpluses
and deficits in such a way that although you say you will breakeven
over the long term, and although you say you are now in surplus,
you did record deficits in 2003-04, 2004-05. These were presumably
planned deficits, were they not?
Miss Thew: We have been in surplus
for a number of years. Our plan, as the multi-purpose test centres
roll-out, is that we will get into deficit. It was intended at
one point that would happen in 2004-05 and 2005-06 but in fact,
because of delays, it has not happened.
Q269 Mrs Ellman: Your payroll has
increased significantly?
Miss Thew: Yes, it has.
Q270 Mrs Ellman: A 12% increase expected?
Miss Thew: Yes, that is the result
of increased investment in driving examiners. Because of demand
we have recruited some additional driving examiners in order to
be able to meet the six-week target. The payroll and pension costs
have increased as a result.
Q271 Chairman: I think we are going
to send you a little note with a few more questions, Miss Thew.
Miss Thew: Of course.
Q272 Chairman: I am sorry we have
allowed you to relax under the impression that you have escaped,
that is not necessarily the case. Mr Hickey, I do genuinely want
to say thank you to you and your colleagues because you have been
very tolerant, very kind, hard working. I think that for us this
is a very important investigation because we need to know your
DVO is working efficiently, we need to know that all of your component
parts are firing on all cylinders, which is I hope the right thing
to say with a group of particular agencies, but I think, also,
that because we do rely on you right the way across the board,
and because you do throw up so many very important issues, it
has been quite helpful. I did want to ask you, but I will write
to you about it, about the numbers of vehicles that were recalled,
because I was a bit surprised to see that in the 12 months up
until 2005 1,000,009 vehicles were recalled because of concerns
about defects which could lead to injury and death. That is the
highest ever number, more than 250% up on the previous year. Do
we know why that is?
Mr Hickey: Not offhand.
Mr Markwick: I think it is reflecting
the increasing complexity of vehicles and vehicle systems.
Q273 Chairman: Forgive me, Mr Markwick,
the Committee are told vehicles are becoming more efficient. Unlike
the times when I started out married life pushing cars, we are
told now it is all very efficient and it all works.
Mr Markwick: I do not think anyone
could challenge that today's vehicles are far safer than they
were 20 years ago. Within that there is a lot more complexity.
I think some of the terminology may be a little bit overstated
because many of the wrinkles are not absolute crash-bang safety
issues but they are upgrades of software, for example.
Q274 Chairman: I do think we need
a note on that.
Mr Hickey: Sure.
Q275 Chairman: We would like to know
why so many vehicles are coming out of factories with significant
design defects. I am grateful to you all. Thank you very much
indeed for coming. You all get special gold stars on your Civil
Service records.
Mr Hickey: Can we ask for that
to be recorded!
Chairman: Not bonuses, just gold stars!
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