Examination of Witnesses (Questions 200-219)
UK TRADE & INVESTMENT
14 FEBRUARY 2006
Q200 Chairman: That is quite a significant
investment.
Mr Ahmad: That is a very significant
investment.
Chairman: That adds to the British figures.
Thank you. That is helpful.
Q201 Mr Bone: I understand that Indian
chambers of commerce have dedicated offices in the UK but UK chambers
of commerce do not have dedicated offices in India. Is that right?
Mr Ahmad: Yes, in some respects.
FICCI (Federation of Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry)
has a presence in the UK. They achieve that by appointing a local
handling agent, if I may describe them as that, to act as their
representative here. In India, the British Chamber movement has
not established itself in the traditional manner. In India, the
British Business Groups fulfil a very similar function, in the
sense that it is a body that meets voluntarily to lobby and to
progress issues of business interest. The functions that a chamber
would fulfil are things that we have been examining very closely.
Indeed, only last week the head of the British Chamber had a meeting
with the IBPN and the Indian High Commission to address this very
issue of whether a joint chamber of commerce is a possible solution
to some of this interaction. Our view on this is to wait to see
what proposals come out from that movement.
Q202 Mr Bone: Does the CBI and such
organisations have representations in India?
Mr Ahmad: The CBI does not have
an office in India at the moment.
Q203 Chairman: Could I just be clear
about that. No representation at all, the CBI, as far as you are
aware?
Mr Ahmad: Not a physical presence
in India. Through participation in our trade missions and ministerial
visits, their presence is very much felt in India, and they are
partners with the CII in terms of bilateral exchanges and programmes,
but they do not have an office in India.
Q204 Chairman: The CII have a very
light-touch representation here.
Mr Ahmad: The CII have a dedicated
country representative who happens to work in the same building
that the CBI is in.
Q205 Mr Bone: Evidence we have heard
previously is that things are going the wrong way with trade with
India, and I think we are concerned about that. Some people might
say there is the UK Trade & Investment overseas offices in
India—which might be a very nice thing to have and it might
be a very nice place to go—yet we do not have a lot of commercial
representation there, which might do a better job. Would it be
better to cut back on UK Trade & Investment establishments
in India and try to get that investment in private organisations
which might do a better job?
Mr Ahmad: I am not sure they are
mutually exclusive, in a sense. We would certainly encourage any
private sector representation in India. The London Stock Exchange,
I know, have been actively looking; the CBI in its deliberations
might choose to do so. But I do not think they will be a replacement
for the added value that a diplomatic presence brings and the
impartial advisory service that we are able to provide, through
a network of offices not just in the big cities, in the big states,
but also in what one might describe as the next layer.
Mr Bone: I think, Chairman, I was being
a little provocative there, but basically—
Chairman: As you are going to meet these
people in two weeks' time . . . No, you are not, are you?
Q206 Mr Bone: I am not, so I do not
need to worry about that! On a more serious point, when I was
running a manufacturing company and we had a high-tech project
which we exported to Europe fairly easily, India was not on the
horizon then. How do you connect with potential manufacturers
in this country in the small and medium sized sectors? That is
my worry.
Mr Ahmad: One example I can start
off with—and we have very recent experience of it—is
the automotive industry. India certainly now has a fairly well
developed and emerging car industry. In the past, our attention
might have been focused towards Japan and other car makers. Increasingly,
we are seeing active participation by the automotive industry
supply chain in the Indian market. In January, the trade mission
that went to the AutoExpo in Delhi was the largest ever from the
UK. Eighty SMEs were represented on that trip—and it was
not simply an exhibition; they were doing business there. I think
you are right to point to that being a critical area of support,
but, increasingly, whether it is automotive or aerospace, some,
if you like, of the harder manufacturing industry presence in
India has a greater level of UK interest than might have been
visible five years ago.
Q207 Mr Bone: Coming on the back
of the Chairman's question, we see in high tech that some of the
universities in India are spinning out ideas. Are we looking at
how we might link some of our cutting-edge companies to some of
that spin-off in technology ideas in India? Is that something
you are working on?
Mr Ahmad: Very much so and very
actively. One leading member of the IBPN board here is associated
with that very activity in Cambridge. As part of the last ministerial
visit, a seminar was held in Chennai specifically on the subject
of spin-offs. On that, there is a huge amount of interest on both
sides.
Q208 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: My question
is about education and promoting education. What, if anything,
is UKTI doing in India to promote the UK as a place to study for
prospective Indian students? What is the UK Government doing to
make the UK a more attractive place for Indian people to study
in?
Mr Ahmad: The lead on education
lies in the Foreign office and the British Council and the Department
of Education. It is also very much a part of the Prime Minister's
initiative with India. When he last visited in September, he announced
a £10 million programme of Government funding to encourage
Indian students to come to the UK to study. At the moment private
sector contributions are being sought and UKTI is playing its
part in promoting that scheme to the private sector here.
Q209 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: What does
that mean? Do you go out with a begging bowl and say, "Could
we have a bit of your money, please, because we want to pay for
a few students to do their education here"?
Mr Ahmad: The way we have put
the offering is: Here is a government scheme which is a similar
model to the Chevening scholarship model, where government funding
is matched by private sector participation. Most business participate
in that, either because it is part of their CSR programme—
Q210 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: CSR?
Mr Ahmad: Corporate social responsibility
programme—or they see a direct business linkage between
training and manpower needs.
Q211 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: Does that
mean they are sort of bolstering the Chevening award programme?
Is that what they are doing?
Mr Ahmad: This is a separate scheme
but it has the attributes of the Chevening scholarship programme,
yes.
Q212 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: Who is running
this?
Mr Ahmad: The Department of Education,
the British Council and the Foreign Office together.
Q213 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: So it is
a second strand to the British Council's armoury in terms of providing
grant-funded aid to people wanting to study here in the UK.
Mr Ahmad: Yes, it is.
Q214 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: Fine. That
does not account for the fact that you had a boost in the number
of students coming to the UK to study last year, because this
is new money since that natural rise in students. Is that right?
Mr Ahmad: Yes, the numbers have
increased because there has been a fair amount of marketing activity
undertaken by individual universities in India. The High Commission
has certainly been very active in that.
Q215 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: I am eager
to know, is that their own initiative or is that an initiative
where you in conjunction with the British Council and FCO have
got together and said, "Look, we want to work with our universities
in this country to market themselves abroad"? I know lots
of universities who just did it off their own bat. They do not
know about you; they just went. They said, "There is a business
there and we want some of it. They have just gone over and said,
"Come to us, please".
Mr Ahmad: If I could clarify one
critical point here. It is not UKTI's job or remit to increase
the number of students in the UK per se. It is part of
the strategy that I was describing, where, at Cabinet Office level,
education is regarded as one very critical part of what the UK
has to offer to India. Our role, in the more traditional business
sense, is where a UK education company or sales provider wants
standard services that any other company would. They are assisted
in the marketplace through trade missions, through the introduction
network that we have, et cetera.
Q216 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: Would you
just run that past me again. Why are you seeking sponsorship from
British companies to support this scheme? How does that work?
Mr Ahmad: The way it works is
this: When the Prime Minister announced the initiative in September
as part of his visit to India, he got commitment from various
UK Government departments to come up with £10 million worth
of funding for this initiative. It is then down to the Department
of Education and the Foreign Office to go and promote the scheme
to the business community as well. We, as an arm of the FCO who
are in touch with businesses of that ilk, are able, if you like,
to pass on the message on behalf of the FCO and the Department
of Education that here is this opportunity. This opportunity was
announced in the presence of 30 CEOs who were with us anyway on
this visit, so they were the first port of call. Our role, if
you like, is one of promoting another government department scheme
rather than running it ourselves.
Q217 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: How much
money have you attracted from business?
Mr Ahmad: That I cannot say. It
is something that the Department of Education would have a better
idea of.
Q218 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: Would you
be kind enough to find that out?
Mr Ahmad: Yes.
Q219 Chairman: We will find that
out. When we talk to businesses in India, they always highlight
this area as an area of key concern. I do not want to steal the
thunder of Mark or Rob, but there are visa restrictions and they
say: "It is not fair, if you go to America you get easier
visas than you get here and therefore we are more likely to go
to America." Australia is setting a target of 80,000 Indian
students because they see the long-term business advantages of
having this close relationship with the country. We are not doing
the same amount, are we?
Mr Ahmad: Again, it is not something
that falls to UKTI as a policy issue, but it is a message that
we get repeatedly from our interaction with India.
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