Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill |
Mr. Kidney: Returning to the debate on Second Reading for a moment, the legislation for English Nature provides mainly for similar directions and the legislation for the Environment Agency certainly does. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the people who serve on those bodies are not willing to undertake such work and are not of good calibre? Mr. Williams: Not at all. I have tremendous admiration for people who serve on such bodies. I know several such people and have worked with them on a number of issues. As the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire said, many matters are about what perception people will have of the organisation. Its independence has been queried. Surely it could have been expressed more explicitly in the Bill that the Secretary of State would set targets or objectives for Natural England to achieve, but that he would not want to micro-manage matters and that the way in which the objectives and targets were met would be up to the board of Natural England. I want it to be given the opportunity to exercise its talents, expertise and experience, but the way in which the Bill is drafted gives the impression that the Secretary of State will be micro-managing matters, be entirely in control of Natural England and not give people the opportunity to add value to the organisation. Jim Knight: I do not have much more to add in response to the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire to what was said in the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney). Given that we are not doing anything new, that we are not altering the status quo in respect of powers of direction and that English Nature and the Countryside Agency have no problem in recruiting people of excellent calibre who are responsible for the governance of those bodies, I have no worries that the inclusion of clause 16 or clauses 15 or 14 would cause problems with the recruitment of the best possible people to be in charge of Natural England when it is formed. Column Number: 83 The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire talked about targets and other ways of having a lighter touch. I do not anticipate directions being used much at all. I anticipate that the guidance provision under clause 15 will be used a little more and that the responsibility of Natural England towards guidance will be different from its responsibility in respect of directions. It will have to carry out what it is directed to do and it will have to have regard to guidance. There will be a tiered approached. I know that the hon. Gentleman is keen on direct election in respect of other bodies, such as national parks, a matter to which we shall return. However, on
Question put and agreed to. Clause 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Further consideration adjourned.[Tony Cunningham.] Adjourned accordingly at nine minutes past Six oclock until Thursday 23 June at Nine oclock. |
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