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Mr. Goodwill: My hon. Friend makes a valid point, but I would not restrict recreational activity to shooting. We have activities such as coarse and game fishing, ferreting, hunting using birds of prey and—this is dear to my heart—motor cycle trials.
It could be argued that any ingress on to a nature reserve compromises that nature reserve. If I were a member of the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, I would have the right to enter a nature reserve, and the fact that I had entered it might compromise the way in which the birds there behaved. The absence of my subscription to finance the work of the RSPB would still further compromise such a reserve, however. The same argument applies to shooting. The facts that gamekeepers operate on a moor and that people go and shoot on that moor could in some way compromise the other wild life on that moor. Many people might say that that is a cost too far. However, if the income was not being received from those activities, the moor really would be compromised.
Which recreational activities would the Minister wish to list as permitted recreational activities on nature reserves or land managed for conservation purposes, and to what extent is there compromise between allowing the ingress of people engaging in activities and accepting the income without which many of the nature reserves would not exist?
Jim Knight: Hon. Members have raised some interesting and useful points. I shall try to deal with them one by one.
The word ''solely'' was mentioned. Does it preclude other activity within the nature reserve? Not at all. It draws a distinction between proposed subsections (1)(a) and (1)(b), in order to preserve the original purpose of nature reserves. It is important when we think about nature reserves to remember that their primary and ultimate purpose is to preserve that precious natural environment. The use of the word ''or'' in the amendment adds the recreational purpose to the conservation purpose; thus, management for enjoyment or recreation does not become a necessary requirement before land can become a nature reserve. There is nothing to prevent other legitimate uses of the land from continuing as at present, provided that they do not prevent its management for the purposes of a nature reserve. The good management of the land through farming or the creation of habitats for shooting would be appropriate as part of the management of the reserve, to protect its special conservation status.
The hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire suggested that proposed subsection (2) might be too narrow. I point him towards the word ''or'' at the end of subsection (2)(a). It is clearly not just about providing suitable conditions for study and research. The ''or'' is about
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''preserving flora, fauna or geological or physiographical features of special interest in the area.''
Ultimately, that is what we need to safeguard in our nature reserves.
Finally, on the questions in respect of recreational purposes and shooting, we envisage such forms of enjoyment as walking, cycling, educational workshops, art and woodcraft activities and poetry events. Some reserves have audio, tactile and visual interpretation experiences to enhance the public's enjoyment of them, and in some places people enjoy the areas by carrying out sports such as angling and shooting. So long as the activities are in sympathy with the conservation and good management of the reserve, they certainly count as recreational. I hope that, on that basis, hon. Members will be happy to support the amendment.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments made: No. 150, in schedule 11, page 70, line 12, leave out paragraph 12 and insert—
'12 For section 15 (meaning of ''nature reserve'') substitute—
Meaning of ''nature reserve''
(1) In this Part, ''nature reserve'' means—
(a) land managed solely for a conservation purpose, or
(b) land managed not only for a conservation purpose but also for a recreational purpose, if the management of the land for the recreational purpose does not compromise its management for the conservation purpose.
(2) Land is managed for a conservation purpose if it is managed for the purpose of—
(a) providing, under suitable conditions and control, special opportunities for the study of, and research into, matters relating to the fauna and flora of Great Britain and the physical conditions in which they live, and for the study of geological and physiographical features of special interest in the area, or
(b) preserving flora, fauna or geological or physiographical features of special interest in the area,
or for both those purposes.
(3) Land is managed for a recreational purpose if it is managed for the purpose of providing opportunities for the enjoyment of nature or for open-air recreation.''.'.
No. 159, in schedule 11, page 71, line 42, at end insert—
'In section 64 (access agreements), omit subsection (5).'.
No. 149, in schedule 11, page 80, line 32, at end insert—
'( ) In that subsection, after the definition of ''poultry'', insert—
'' ''premises'' includes land (including buildings), movable structures, vehicles, vessels, aircraft and other means of transport;''.'.
No. 160, in schedule 11, page 84, line 21, leave out from 'Omit' to end of line 23 and insert '—
(a) Article 21 (committee of investigation), and
(b) Article 22 (action following report by committee of investigation).'.
No. 161, in schedule 11, page 90, line 9, at end insert—
'Agriculture (Northern Ireland) Order 1993
(S.I.1993/2665 (N.I10))
Omit Article 22 (functions of certain bodies in relation to agricultural marketing schemes).'.—[Jim Knight.]
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Question proposed, That this schedule, as amended, be the Eleventh schedule to the Bill.
12 noon
Mr. Williams: I wish to make just a small point about schedule 11, about which the Minister will perhaps be able to help us. Paragraph 41 of schedule 11, on page 74, contains the title
''General functions of the Countryside Council for Wales''.
Further on in the paragraph, the schedule gives the power that the Countryside Council of Wales may
''make such charges for any of their services as they think fit''.
That probably gives too great a power for even a Welsh body to carry out. I seek assurance from the Minister that such a power would be subject to secondary legislation by the Welsh Assembly and would require consultation.
Jim Knight: I am just reflecting on that, but it gives me a good opportunity to say some things about schedule 11 that I think would be helpful and important, and with your permission, Mr. Forth, about schedule 12. Both schedules are introduced by clause 95. I am not entirely clear whether we have covered clause 95 yet.
The Chairman: Yes, we dealt with that.
Jim Knight: Very good.
Schedule 11 contains minor and consequential amendments, the vast majority of which simply reflect the creation of new organisations—Natural England, the Commission for Rural Communities and others—and the abolition of existing organisations, such as English Nature and the Countryside Agency. Some new provisions can be found among the remaining paragraphs in schedule 11, and it is important that I highlight them.
Paragraph 4 ensures that it is no longer an offence for levy boards to disclose information to others. That will promote the sharing of data between levy bodies and with other organisations to aid streamlining and modernisation in line with freedom of information principles.
Paragraph 11 removes duties on the countryside agencies to advise on the administration of national parks and the development of visitor facilities. That is a deregulatory measure that reflects the fact that national park authorities have been independent bodies since 1995 and would not expect that degree of involvement from Natural England.
Paragraph 12 enhances the purpose of national nature reserves in England to accommodate more explicitly enjoyment of nature and open air recreation, as we have been discussing. Paragraph 96 declares for the avoidance of doubt that, within England and Wales, the definition of plants in the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 includes algae and fungae. The schedule also contains a number of tidying-up and consequential amendments.
As regards the specific and interesting point raised by the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire, I need to think a little longer about a sensible answer. I will therefore respond to him by letter and copy the Committee into that correspondence.
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Schedule 11, as amended, agreed to.
Schedule 12
Repeals and revocations
Amendments made: No. 162, in schedule 12, page 94, line 34, at end insert—
No. 163, in schedule 12, page 98, line 12, leave out '22(1) and (2)'' and insert '22'
No. 164, in schedule 12, page 98, line 17, at end insert—
'Agriculture (Northern Ireland) Order 1993 (S.I.1993/2665 (N.I10))
Schedule 12, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 96 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 97
Commencement
Jim Knight: I beg to move amendment No. 155, in clause 97, page 39, line 18, leave out 'the Environment' and insert 'Agriculture and Rural Development'.
The Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 156 and 157.
Jim Knight: The amendments make two small adjustments to relevant Department names and add one new important subsection to the commencement clause. Amendment No. 155 was tabled at the request of the Northern Ireland Administration, and simply changes the Department in Northern Ireland to be consulted by the Secretary of State when commencing the measures in part 2 reconstituting the Joint Nature Conservation Committee.
Similarly, amendment No. 156 requires the Secretary of State to consult the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development and the Department of the Environment before commencing provisions in schedules 11 and 12 that affect Northern Ireland only.
I mentioned amendment No. 157 when we discussed the rights-of-way provisions. This additional measure covers regional commencement, allowing the Secretary of State to commence the rights-of-way provisions earlier in some areas. That approach follows a precedent in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. On that basis, I urge hon. Members to accept the amendments.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments made: No. 156, in clause 97, page 40, line 10, after 'Development', insert
'and the Department of the Environment'.
No. 157, in clause 97, page 40, line 13, at end insert—
'( ) An order under this section may make different provision for different purposes or different areas.'.—[Jim Knight.]
Clause 97, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 98 and 99 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
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Question proposed, That the Chairman do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.
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