Mr.
Bone: And for public
benefit.
Mr.
Turner: Certainly, it is for public benefit. I believe
that the Bill opens the way for the Conservative Party to become a
registered charity because it fulfils all the public benefit
requirements that are set out in this Bill. However, that was not the
purpose of my rising to speak on this group of
amendments. My purpose
was to raise a question that I raised with the Under-Secretary of State
for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale, East
(Paul Goggins) in a letter of 21 July about raffles—not the man,
the ticket
things. Mr.
Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op): The
hotel?
Mr.
Turner: Nor the
hotel.
James
Duddridge: The
cigarettes?
Mr.
Turner: Nor the cigarettes.
I asked the
Under-Secretary whether raffles would be allowed. He replied that a
raffle for charitable, benevolent or philanthropic
purposes—although presumably not for the far right—would
come within the definition of a charitable appeal in clause 45(2)(b).
It would be regulated under part 3 except where the exemption for
local, short term collections applies or the raffle is not a public,
charitable collection under clause 46. I understood from that
explanation that a raffle would be regulated. The Minister’s
amendments made it even clearer that a raffle will be regulated because
it falls under amendmentNo. 176, which says
that “the making of an
offer to sell goods or to supply services...to members of the
public.’.” However,
I am confused as to what amounts to a local, short-term
collection. If I give
the Minister some examples, perhaps he would answer them. A raffle
conducted at the Benbridge street fair by the Benbridge branch of the
Royal National Lifeboat Institution is probably local in character
because it supports the Benbridge lifeboat, although it supports a
national institution that funds lifeboats. The duration of the appeal
is probably only for the one day of the Benbridge street
fair. On
the other hand, what about the scenario in which the raffle is
conducted by the Halifax branch of the Royal National Lifeboat
Institution—were there such a branch—which presumably
does not have its own local lifeboat? Does that amount to a local,
short-term collection or to some other type of collection? What if an
event takes place in Tesco’s car park, but it is a short-term
local collection for the Isle of Wight branch of the Alzheimer’s
Society? Does that count? Does it depend on whether the
Alzheimer’s Society is a national institution with local
branches or a series of local organisations with a national, federal
headquarters?
Peter
Bottomley: I am not certain whether I have missed
something. If someone believes that they are making a local short-term
collection and they notify the local authority and the local authority
responds either by doing nothing or serving a notice under subsection
(4), page 57, it seems that duties have been fulfilled on both sides.
The local authority either responds or it does not. If it does, it is
challengeable. If it does not respond, it can be allowed to go ahead. I
am not sure whether I have missed the
point.
Mr.
Turner: From my reading of the Bill, it seems that my hon.
Friend has hit on the point. I had hoped that the Minister would
confirm that but my hon. Friend appears to have done
so.
Mr.
Turner: I am not disappointed that my hon. Friend has
confirmed it. I want to know whether his amendments make the position
more onerous than the Bill as originally drafted and what exactly is
meant by a “local
collection”.
Edward
Miliband: I will be brief. It is important to get this
provision on short-term local collections right. The hon. Member for
Worthing, West was correct. The intention is to enable locally
organised small-scale collection activity to take place. Regulations
will be drawn up, partly to help local authorities, to specify criteria
that will include ensuring that the collection takes place in a small,
defined area over a short period of time, is organised by a local
promoter, does not form part of a series of collections and does not
involve paid fundraisers. The hon. Gentleman is correct that the matter
is to be referred to local authorities, on whose discretion and good
judgment we will have partly to rely, in the spirit suggested by the
hon. Member for Wellingborough. My amendments do not make the task more
onerous.
Peter
Bottomley: The Parliamentary Secretary makes sensible
suggestions in his amendments on restoring the situation for
non-charitable, non-benevolent, non-philanthropic collections. Perhaps
he might indicate on Report, if he cannot do so now, whether a
subsequent change to the position for non-charitable, non-benevolent,
non-philanthropic collections can be made under the regulation-making
power that he will have
later on, or whether we will have, as I suspect, to look for something
outside the Bill to do
that.
Edward
Miliband: We cannot do that. I suspected that we could not
do so; I had a one-in-two
chance. Amendment
agreed
to. Amendment
made: No. 176, page 53, line 35, leave
out subsections (4) and (5) and insert—
‘(4) An appeal falls within this subsection
if it consists in or
includes— (a) the making
of an offer to sell goods or to supply services,
or (b) the exposing of goods
for sale, to members of the
public.’.—[Edward
Miliband.] Clause
45, as amended, ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Edward
Miliband: I beg to
move, That paragraph
(3) of the Order of the Committee of 4th July 2006 be amended by the
substitution for ‘4.00 p.m.’ of‘9.00
p.m.’.
Members will be delighted to
hear that that will enable them to debate until 9 pm on Thursday
evening to ensure that there is proper scrutiny of the Bill, which is
important. Proceedings have speeded up somewhat, although I hope that
that is not to the detriment of scrutiny. I think that all parties felt
that there might not be enough time for proper scrutiny to take place
if we only had a four-and-a-half-hour sitting on Thursday afternoon. We
have extended the deadline till 9 pm so we can sit for longer and
ensure that there is proper
scrutiny.
Peter
Bottomley: That is reasonable, although I should be
surprised if we needed all that time. May I take this opportunity to
pay tribute to the Minister and his officials, who have helped us to
consider a number of issues
reasonably? Question
put and agreed
to. Further
consideration adjourned.—[Liz
Blackman.] Adjourned
accordingly at fourteen minutes pastSeven o’clock till
Thursday 13 July at Nine
o’clock.
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