Michael
Gove: The hon. Lady may be about to come to this point, in
which case I ask her to forgive me for my presumption. Can she
enlighten us on how long it will take to conduct an energy performance
certificate inspection of a standard home, assuming that that was all
that one did and that one was not doing any other part of the survey?
How long would it take? What qualifications or expertise would be
necessary to perform that process?
Yvette
Cooper: This is one of the times when I wish my hon.
Friend the Member for Crosby was here. I am sure that she could tell us
in great detail, as she has carried out all sections of the course. I
do not think that I can credibly
give—
Michael
Gove: I will intervene again, because I am genuinely not
trying to catch the Minister out—heaven forbid—but simply
trying to elucidate some information. Obviously, people want to know
what precisely is involved, especially those who are thinking of
training to become inspectors, those who are in training at the moment
and those who might have to cope with the regime outlined by the
Minister. People would like to know how long the process will take, the
degree of skill that is required to discharge the process and what is
involved. Will someone be able to look around a house, ascertain
whether the loft is lagged, whether windows are double glazed and
whether it is new-build or an antique or character property, and use a
ready-reckoning formula to issue the certificate, or will the process
be much more intrusive? Will it involve looking in wall cavities, for
example? A broad outline at this stage and more detail on another
occasion would certainly be helpful.
Yvette
Cooper: I am certainly very happy to provide the hon.
Gentleman with more detailed information in the future. The energy
performance certificates are clearly a component part of the HCR.
Clearly, a lot of additional information in the HCR is not included in
the energy performance certificate and thereforesome things
would not need to be assessed in a house simply to complete an energy
performance certificate. Nevertheless, we are keen to ensure that we
have clear incentives for people to combine energy performance
certificates with the wider HCR. There will be knock-on benefits to
consumers as a result.
Mr.
Hands: It sounds to me to be a helpful development that
the certificates will need to be renewed every 10 years. Can the
Minister explain what will happen if there is a significant change to
the property during those 10 years? Who will determine whether the
energy performance certificate needs to be updated and will the seller
more or less then have to seek an update even if the change has been
relatively small, regardless of things such as wind turbines and solar
panels? Even if a small change has been made, such as a rear loft
extension, who will determine whether a new certificate is
needed?
Yvette
Cooper: Our regulations make it clear that a new
certificate is needed for a new sale. It would be possible to comply
with the EU directive—this option would be available to other
countries if they chose it—simply by ensuring that an energy
performance certificate awarded in the previous 10 years was available
at the point of sale or during the making of an offer. We are going
further than that by stating not that the energy performance
certificate must have been completed within the past 10 years, but that
it must be new for the sale in question. A certificate completed for a
previous sale could not therefore be used.
If a person
had bought their home three years ago and still had their energy
performance certificate in the back of a cupboard, under the EU
directive they would be able to pull it out and use it again for the
next sale. Considering that all kind of things could have happened in
that home in the meantime, as the hon. Gentleman said, the buyer needs
up-to-date information on the current energy efficiency situation and
carbon emission level in the home. That provision is a valuable
addition to the requirements in the EU directive. We are going further
than the requirements of the directive, which is the right thing to
do.
Andrew
Stunell: I shall come to the Minister’s aid. We
have the worst level and standard of energy efficiency and conservation
in our housing stock of any EU nation, so it is surely overdue that we
should be making the requirement in
question.
Yvette
Cooper: The hon. Gentleman is right. I know that he has
long taken a strong interest in the need to make such information
available. I shall
respond to some of the points made in the debate. The hon. Member for
Surrey Heath asked for information about the HCR database and whether
there is interest in operating it. I can tell him that, yes, more than
one contractor is interested and there are also people interested in
the certification schemes. Further discussions are going on.
On access to the database, we
have made it clear in a series of written answers—I am happy to
put this on the record again—that such bodies as the Valuation
Office Agency or Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will not have
access to the database. There have been scare stories despite our
having put that point on parliamentary record on many
occasions. Hon.
Members asked questions about home inspectors, a role that we take
seriously. We recognise the uncertainty created for people who are
undergoing training, which is one of the main issues being discussed
with stakeholders. We need to be clear that we strongly believe that
HIPs should be introduced with the energy performance certificates, the
completion of which will need qualified experts from next June, and
that HCRs need to be rolled out. Home inspectors will need to be in
place to conduct those reports, award the certificates and be part of
the trials and the dry run. We are considering further how to ensure
that proper information is available for people who are either
beginning or completing home inspection courses or considering taking
them up. They should have up-to-date information; many matters are
being discussed and developed, and we are examining how we can ensure
that that is the case.
We take such matters into
account when considering the risks of a big bang implementation next
year. Our concern is that, although there are many months left to train
home inspectors, there are risks to consumers if not enough are in
place, not simply because of delays, but because of the impact on the
price of HCRs. We have examined the matter in detail when considering
whether there are alternative ways in which to phase the roll-out and
to promote take-up.
Andrew
Stunell: I thank the Minister for that.
Presumably she has the monthly reports that are referred to in the
regulatory impact assessment, so will she give us a snapshot of how
things are? I take her point on the need for energy efficiency
inspections. Judging by the information with which she has provided us,
it seems that those inspections are projected to attract a fee of about
one third of that for a full pack, which suggests that only one third
of the number of inspectors would be employed and paid for from that
money. Will she comment on that
figure?
Yvette
Cooper: Let me first give the hon. Gentleman the facts
that he requests. The latest figures suggest that more than 4,500
people have signed up for training and assessment and that some 235
people have completed their training and have qualified as home
inspectors. We are currently exploring with stakeholders the time for
completing an energy performance certificate compared to the time for
completing a full HCR, and the relative costs of the two.
As the hon. Gentleman will be
aware, however, we have always said that costs and prices will
ultimately be set by the market. In the regulatory impact assessment,
we used figures that were available in the market for the current
provision of comparable surveys. With the introduction of HIPs, and
with greater transparency and competition, one would expect prices to
be driven down. So it is difficult to predict precise costs at this
stage—it is a matter for the market and we are discussing it
further.
We shall provide further
information in due course about the dry run and about next steps for
energy performance certificates and regulations. We believe that it is
important to continue with the work on regulations, because they set
the framework for large parts of the work that is under way. We shall
return to the House with revised regulations and a revised regulatory
impact assessment in due course.
Question
put:— The
Committee divided: Ayes 8, Noes
5.
Division
No.
1] Smith,
Ms Angela C. (Sheffield,
Hillsborough)Question
accordingly agreed to.
Resolved, That
the Committee has considered the Home Information Pack Regulations 2006
(S.I. 2006, No.
1503). Committee
rose at twenty minutes to Four
o’clock.
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