The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:†
Brown,
Lyn (West Ham)
(Lab) Carswell,
Mr. Douglas (Harwich)
(Con) †
Clelland,
Mr. David (Tyne Bridge)
(Lab) †
Dorries,
Mrs. Nadine (Mid-Bedfordshire)
(Con) †
Drew,
Mr. David (Stroud)
(Lab/Co-op) †
Efford,
Clive (Eltham) (Lab) †
Foster,
Mr. Michael (Worcester)
(Lab) †
Hanson,
Mr. David (Minister of State, Northern Ireland
Office)Jackson,
Mr. Stewart (Peterborough)
(Con) †
Öpik,
Lembit (Montgomeryshire)
(LD) †
Robertson,
Mr. Laurence (Tewkesbury)
(Con) Rosindell,
Andrew (Romford)
(Con) †
Simpson,
David (Upper Bann)
(DUP) †
Strang,
Dr. Gavin (Edinburgh, East)
(Lab) †
Truswell,
Mr. Paul (Pudsey)
(Lab) †
Walley,
Joan (Stoke-on-Trent, North)
(Lab) †
Waltho,
Lynda (Stourbridge)
(Lab) Gosia McBride, Committee
Clerk † attended the
Committee Fourth
Standing Committee on Delegated
LegislationWednesday
10 May
2006[Ann
Winterton in the
Chair]Draft Private Tenancies (Northern Ireland) Order 20062.30
pm The
Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office(Mr. David
Hanson): I beg to
move, That the
Committee has considered the draft Private Tenancies (Northern Ireland)
Order 2006. I welcome
you to the Chair, Lady Winterton. I hope that the order will prove
relatively uncontroversial, but I am obviously willing to take
questions in due
course. A draft of the
order was laid before the House on24 April. It introduces a
series of measures that will create a new framework for the private
rented sector in Northern Ireland. The private rented sector plays an
important role in meeting the housing needs of a large number of
people. However, it can currently be divided into two distinct parts.
The uncontrolled sector is subject to minimal regulation and Government
intervention, and its tenants have few rights. The controlled sector is
subject to significant legislation, and tenants have major
rights. The Rent
(Northern Ireland) Order 1978 is complex and cumbersome. It has created
a situation in which tenants in properties subject to rent control have
significant rights, whereas those in uncontrolled property have only
basic housing rights. However, major problems in the controlled sector
are caused by the unfitness of some properties. The determining factor
in deciding whether a property should be subject to rent control is its
status in 1978 rather than its current condition. The 1978 order makes
no contribution to the Department’s objective of creating a
viable private rented sector.
One reason for introducing
today’s order is that we want to focus on the main problems in
the private rented sector and remove the unnecessary complexity of
existing legislation. I am pleased to tell the Committee—I know
that it is a matter of interest to hon. Members—that the order
was subject to a thorough process of consultation, which lasted from
2004 until April 2006, when it was laid before the House.
The draft order introduces a
new system of repair enforcement and rent control over private
tenancies in Northern Ireland. In future, the key question in
determining whether rent controls should apply will be the fitness of
the tenancy. If a tenancy is found on inspection by the district
council to be unfit for human habitation, rent control will be imposed
by the Housing Executive and the district council. The district council
will also have the power to enforce the necessary remedial work to
bring the property up to fitness standards. Repeat offences by
landlords who
prove unable to undertake their responsibilities will result in strong
action being taken. The order rationalises the
existing complex system of regulation. Under the order, once an
existing protected or statutory tenancy comes to an end, a property
will no longer be subject to rent control unless it fails to meet the
fitness standards. However, existing protected tenants will retain
security of tenure.
The order contains provisions
to clarify landlord and tenant responsibilities. Private landlords will
have to provide tenants with statements giving the terms of their
tenancies, which will include details of who is responsible for
repairs; and if there is no such written statement, the order provides
for default terms to apply—in effect, those rights will be given
by default. The order
is the first major initiative in this growing sector of the housing
market for 28 years. It will provide the basis for a co-ordinated
inter-agency approach to tackle poor repair and disrepair in the
sector, involving district councils and the Housing Executive. It will
have a real impact on the unacceptably high level of unfitness among
rented properties in Northern Ireland. Tenants, who are my main
concern—many of them are elderly and vulnerable—will have
the opportunity to live in better quality homes, with more security of
tenure and more basic rights than they have now. Landlords with good
quality accommodation will receive a fair return for their
investment. The order
will provide better rights and better housing conditions in Northern
Ireland. I commend it to the Committee.
2.34
pm Mr.
Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): I welcome you to
the Chair, Lady Winterton. I also congratulate the Minister on
remaining in his position; it has been a pleasure working with him so
far, and I look forward to doing so in
future. The Opposition
broadly welcome the order. I regret that it is not being considered by
the Assembly, which I hope will be able to consider other orders in the
not-too-distant future. I would also like to place on record my thanks
to the National Landlords Association for providing me with some of the
background to this matter and with some of its thoughts, which were
very useful. I should
like to raise one or two points. Why is there a requirement to provide
a rent book for all tenancies? That seems cumbersome and rather onerous
in this day and age. Will the Minister explain the thinking behind that
provision? Regarding articles 64 and 65, will he explain how the
landlord-tenant relationship could be interfered with, if at all? Will
he also confirm that no fees will be chargeable for certificates of
fitness? Article 45
allows registered rent to be reviewed only if a change of circumstances
has occurred. That seems rather a wide phrase to use. Will the Minister
explain why such a phrase was used and what those circumstances could
be? Will he confirm that general increases in local rent levels would
constitute a change in circumstances sufficient to allow a rent to be
reviewed? The powers in article 55 allow district councils to review
the register of rents. How does he envisage that power being
used?
As to the unfit properties to
which the Minister referred towards the end of his speech, I understand
that renovation grant aid might be available from the Northern Ireland
Housing Executive. He probably cannot give a figure off the top of his
head, but can he estimate what percentage of those properties would
qualify? I understand why the term “unfit properties” is
used to judge the degree of regulation that may be needed, and that may
sound fair, but I wonder whether it is a bit of an arbitrary way of
judging which properties should qualify for a certain regulation. Will
he give us a little more detail on how that would work?
In general, however,
I am happy to welcome the order. As someone who has been a landlord in
the past and is still a tenant, I am well aware of some of the
difficulties that can arise from such arrangements. Although I do not
want to see overburdensome regulation, I think that fairness to both
tenants and landlords is important. It is also important to remember
that we must be fair to landlords, because if they are overburdened,
the rented sector that so many people need will not be available. With
those comments, I welcome the order.
2.38
pm David
Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I congratulate you on your
chairmanship, Lady Winterton, and I wish you well in it.
I do not see anything really
controversial in the order, but I should like to raise a couple of
issues. I am concerned about rent books, to back up what my hon. Friend
the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr. Robertson) said about that subject. Will
the Minister also explain whether the order covers property owners who
put 10 to 15 people into one home, for example, in relation to renting
and standards? People come from other countries to work in Northern
Ireland and they are put into rented accommodation like hens in a
hatchery. We need to know whether the order covers that issue, but
apart from those points, I am happy enough with
it. 2.39
pm Lembit
Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): May I add my welcome
to you, Mrs. Winterton? I was hoping that we would have a good
Chairman, but instead we have the very
best.
The
Chairman: You will go far.
[Laughter.]
Lembit
Öpik: Watch and
learn. May I also say
how delighted I am that the Minister survived the night of the long
knives? It is clear that, on reflection, the Prime Minister decided
that the hon. Gentleman had not suffered enough, so we shall make it
our business to try to correct
that. I feel obliged
to point out once again that we are now getting to the stage of having
an incessant torrent of Statutory Instrument Committees in respect of
Northern Ireland. The Government’s insistence on overloading the
parliamentary agenda with Northern Ireland business that, if dealt with
over a longer period of time, would enable us to focus on the core
business of securing a lasting peace, is not in their interest or in
the interest of those of us who have for a long time
demonstrated good will. I counsel the Minister not to squander for
relatively little gain the good will and good faith that many of us
have shown. Turning to
the legislation, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury accurately highlighted
the issues that concern me as well. There is only one point to add:
there may be a temptation for the Government to supplement this
relatively straightforward measure with add-on parts. That has happened
before, and we began to have difficulties as unintended consequences
cropped up, making the new system as complicated as the one that it is
was meant to simplify. I ask the Minister for an assurance that the
Government will resist any temptation to fiddle at the edges before the
order has been allowed to function for, say, five years, and that if
there are to be further additions to tenancy regulation, they will be
introduced in a strategically cohesive way, dealing with the whole
legislation rather than simply tacking bits
on. I make those
remarks also because my experience is that legislation relating to
tenancy agreements has been notoriously prone to reinterpretation by
opportunists, whether on the side of the tenant or the landlord. The
Government must recognise that they will not eliminate all dodgy
dealing just by introducing legislation. I seek an assurance from the
Minister that they will let the thing ride for a period, even if some
minor issues crop up, rather than fiddle with it. If they do fiddle, we
will end up with a quagmire rather like the one that he seeks to
replace. 2.42
pm Mr.
Hanson: I shall try to answer the points that Opposition
Members have made. First, may I say to the hon. Members for Tewkesbury
and for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) what we say on all these
occasions? I too believe that today’s process is unsatisfactory.
Both hon. Members know that one of my prime functions as the Northern
Ireland Office Minister with responsibility for political development
is to secure the return of the Assembly so that it can manage the
issues that I now deal with in respect of not only housing, but other
devolved matters. Nevertheless, until such time as we get the Assembly
back, this is the situation in which we find
ourselves. As hon.
Members know, we have had correspondence on the procedures for dealing
with matters such as those before us. Today, we are dealing with what
is, in effect, a 75-clause Bill, but it will be taken in this sitting,
which has the potential to last two and a half hours, as an Order in
Council. If it were a housing Bill in Northern Ireland, it would go
through Second Reading, Committee and a range of other scrutiny. I
understand the unacceptability of the situation, but the difficulty is
that we must get the Assembly back. That is one of my prime
responsibilities. Hon. Members will understand that I wish for greater
scrutiny, and that I hope that the 108-Member Assembly will return
shortly to scrutinise and take charge of such
matters. The hon.
Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) asked about the situation of
individuals who find themselves in accommodation provided by landlords
in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. There is on thestatute
book legislation regulating houses in multiple
occupation; it is one of the measures that the Labour Government have
introduced. If the hon. Gentleman has specific concerns about
unacceptable overcrowding in any property and conditions that are not
what he would think fit, he can raise the matter with the Housing
Executive, which has powers at present to examine the suitability and
operation of houses in multiple occupation under the relevant
legislation. The hon.
Member for Tewkesbury raised a number of points, all of which are
valid. The first, on the rent book, was also raised by the hon. Members
for Montgomeryshire and for Upper Bann. Rent books and statutory
tenancy agreements have different functions. The rent book is a record
of payments, which shows that payment has been made by a tenant to a
landlord. That is why we want to retain it. A tenancy statement, for
which we provide in the order, will be a contract between landlord and
tenant giving rights to both and dividing their responsibilities. The
rent book and the tenancy statement are separate matters and should be
kept so. Rent books are required by law and are necessary to prove that
payments have been made. I hope that that answers the points made on
the matter. The hon.
Member for Tewkesbury referred to fee charging. It is important, and we
will be issuing guidance and details on it if the order receives Royal
Assent. It is clear that district councils must recoup their costs
either through general ratepayers’ resources or a charge to the
service recipients. That will be a matter for those councils. They will
be empowered to make a modest charge for conducting fitness
inspections, if they wish to do so, and there may be further charges if
they need to take remedial action. I do not anticipate that there will
be significant charges, and I would be surprised if they were more than
£250 to £300. They may well be significantly less. I will
produce guidelines, and we have consulted district councils, landlords
and other organisations on the matter. They have accepted the basic
principle, and flexibility in charging will be up to the district
council. I am keen to ensure that safeguards are in place if charges
are to be passed on to tenants. I will issue guidance on that in the
coming months. The
hon. Member for Tewkesbury also mentioned articles 64 and 65, which
relate to the collection of information about tenancies and the
ownership of dwelling houses respectively. We know that, in many cases,
tenants have no written tenancy agreement. The order will impose
default tenancy terms where none has been agreed or a tenancy agreement
fails to cover the specified items. That is essential in the case of
repair enforcement and it does not overturn the right of a landlord and
tenant to come to any agreement that they
want. The
hon. Member for Tewkesbury also mentioned article 45, dealing with a
change of circumstances, and article 55, which is about a review of
registered rents. Article 45 will affect only protected tenancies for
which rent control applies regardless of fitness, and it will allow
landlords and tenants to be given recognition for any work that is done
to a property so that agreements can reflect improvements or a change
in circumstances. I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman.
Article 55
deals with rents for other controlled tenancies. It will enable rents to
be increased by the Department, solely on the recommendation of a rent
officer. I hope that that will give some security to both tenants and
landlords. My final
point relates to the comments made by the hon. Member for
Montgomeryshire on the review of the strategy. I am keen to ensure that
we modernise housing policy in Northern Ireland while I have this job.
That may only be for the next two weeks, because we will, I hope, get
the Assembly back on 23 May. In that case, I shall remain a Minister in
the Northern Ireland Office, but without responsibility for devolved
matters. That is as it should be. If either I or a colleague continue
to have that responsibility, we will certainly wish to review a range
of issues in the housing strategy. I hope that my colleagues in the
devolved Administration would do the
same. Northern Ireland
legislation on the private rented sector has historically followed a
different path to that in England and Wales. The order will bring the
two jurisdictions closer together. It will give tenants improved rights
and security, and bring a better level of fitness to the most unfit
properties. However—this is the point that the hon. Member for
Montgomeryshire mentioned—it will be part of a wider strategy of
helping to promote the private rented sector and indeed the housing
sector generally. We will be looking at that matter over the next few
months and years. I expect to bring forward, should I still be in this
post, a number of issues such as tenancy deposit schemes, landlord
registration and selective licensing of accommodation. Those are issues
that we are currently considering in-house, and I expect to bring them
forward in due course.
Lembit
Öpik: In that case, I wish to make a plea: let us
ensure that the whole thing fits together. As we have seen previously,
there is a danger that meddling with one part of rental regulations can
cause unintended consequences in another. Will the Minister therefore
consult as widely as possible and ensure that we do not start
recreating the very problems that the order is intended to
solve? The
Chairman: Order. Before the Minister responds, I should
point out that we are straying slightly wide of the order. It would be
helpful if we could return to the
order. Mr.
Hanson: I accept that guidance, Lady Winterton. I would
simply say that I am happy to look at other aspects, and the Government
are looking at a range of issues that will supplement the work of the
order in due
course. David
Simpson: The Minister said that if there were any specific
difficulties in relation to multiple occupancy we should contact the
Housing Executive. In the past we have done that, and there seems to be
a reluctance in the Housing Executive to take on the tenants or
landlords involved. Will the Minister make sure that the information
goes back to the Housing Executive?
While I am on my feet, may I
also congratulate the Minister, as I omitted to do so earlier? Contrary
to rumour, we have a reasonable working relationship. We wish him well.
He suggested that perhaps over the next two weeks, we should have an
Executive up and running. I think that he is safe enough for the next
six at
least. Mr.
Hanson: I am not sure whether to accept the grateful
thanks of the nation. I would really like the hon. Gentleman to be back
in the Assembly rather than encouraging me to do my job here now. It
really is his responsibility to look after these matters, as he knows.
I am sure that at some point we will convince him that he can take
those matters
forward. The Labour
Government passed legislation on houses in multiple occupation to
ensure that landlords and tenants operate in a decent and fair society.
If the hon. Gentleman has a concern about the way in which the Housing
Executive is implementing the measures,
he should raise it with that body, but I would be grateful if he raised
it with me too. I will follow through any specific concerns that he
has, and ensure that the Housing Executive examines them in due
course. I hope that I
have satisfied all members of the Committee. May I thank you for your
chairmanship, Lady Winterton? I thank our colleagues who have taken the
Hansard record and who have serviced the Committee. I also thank
housing officials at the Department for Social Development who have
worked for two years on this process. I have been involved with this
measure for only 13 months, and they deserve much of the credit for the
work in bringing the proposal before us. I commend the order to the
Committee. Resolved, That
the Committee has considered the draft Private Tenancies (Northern
Ireland) Order 2006.
Committee rose at seven
minutes to Three
o’clock.
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