The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Brady,
Mr. Graham (Altrincham and Sale, West)
(Con)
Browne,
Mr. Jeremy (Taunton)
(LD) Burgon,
Colin (Elmet) (Lab)
Burns,
Mr. Simon (West Chelmsford)
(Con) Byers,
Mr. Stephen (North Tyneside)
(Lab)
Campbell,
Mr. Ronnie (Blyth Valley)
(Lab) Clappison,
Mr. James (Hertsmere)
(Con)
Crabb,
Mr. Stephen (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
(Con)
Cruddas,
Jon (Dagenham) (Lab)
Cunningham,
Tony (Workington)
(Lab)
Curry,
Mr. David (Skipton and Ripon)
(Con) Gwynne,
Andrew (Denton and Reddish)
(Lab)
Hoon,
Mr. Geoffrey (Minister for
Europe)Kennedy,
Jane (Liverpool, Wavertree)
(Lab) Moore,
Mr. Michael (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)
(LD)
Robinson,
Mr. Geoffrey (Coventry, North-West)
(Lab)
Seabeck,
Alison (Plymouth, Devonport)
(Lab) Geoffrey Farrar, Committee
Clerk attended the
Committee Eighth
Standing Committee on Delegated
LegislationWednesday
28 June
2006[John
Cummings in the
Chair]Draft European Organisation for Nuclear Research (Privileges and Immunities) Order 20062.30
pm The
Minister for Europe (Mr. Geoffrey Hoon): I beg to
move, That the
Committee has considered the draft European Organisation for Nuclear
Research (Privileges and Immunities) Order
2006. The draft order
was laid before the House on 25 May 2006 together with an explanatory
memorandum, which is now required for all affirmative statutory
instruments. The
draft order confers the legal capacities of a body corporate and
privileges and immunities on the European Organisation for Nuclear
Research. It also confers privileges and immunities on representatives
of state parties, the director general and officials of the
organisation. These privileges and immunities are conferred in
accordance with the protocol on the privileges and immunities of the
European Organisation for Nuclear Research, which was signed on behalf
of the United Kingdom on 18 March 2004.
The European
Organisation for Nuclear Research, which is known as CERN, is situated
on the French-Swiss border near Geneva and was founded by 12 member
states that had ratified the convention for the establishment of a
European Organisation for Nuclear Research on 29 September 1954. UK
ratification was deposited on 30 December 1953.
CERN is the world's leading
particle physics centre and provides an infrastructure for member
states to engage in science projects that would not otherwise be
viable. It is funded by 20 member states with the United Kingdom
contributing some £80 million, which amounts to 20 per cent. of
the total budget. The Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council
leads on policy at officia1 level.
The draft order will allow the
United Kingdom to comply with its international obligations in giving
full effect to the protocol on the privileges and immunities of the
European Organisation for Nuclear Research. I am satisfied that the
draft order is compatible with the European convention on human
rights. I hope that
this non-controversial draft order will receive the full support of all
members of the Committee.
2.32
pm Mr.
Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale, West) (Con): I am
grateful for the Ministers opening remarks. As he said, the
draft order is in line with the usual provisions of the International
Organisations Act
1968. The process is required by the 2004 protocol. The Act extends
considerable immunities and privileges. The substance of the matter
before us is not controversial, as the Minister rightly said, but I am
sure he agrees that it is right and proper to proceed cautiously with
both the number and scale of organisations that are covered by these
wide-ranging
immunities. The
explanatory memorandum says that there is little by way of practical
implication for the United Kingdom, principally because of the location
of CERN in Geneva. Will the Minister say whether there will be any
practical effect for the United Kingdom and particularly whether
immunity extends to the specified officials and representatives of
states when travelling via the United Kingdom? Do meetings held under
the auspices of the organisation ever take place in the United Kingdom
and, if so, would the immunities in question apply on those occasions
and in regard to travel to and from those meetings? Are any of the
organisations staff or members of the Particle Physics and
Astronomy Research Council based in the United Kingdom or ordinarily
resident here, albeit without having permanent residency, which I
understand is a category that is excluded by the draft order? If so,
how many people fall into those categories? Are any of the staff of the
council in the UK overseas citizens who may benefit from the immunities
if they are travelling during the course of their employment or the
necessary functions of their position to the organisation in Geneva or
any of its meetings elsewhere? Can the Minister confirm that any person
who may in future fall into those categories would benefit from
immunities and
privileges? Given that
the order excludes British citizens, British overseas citizens, British
overseas territories citizens, British nationals and permanent
residents of the United Kingdom, can the Minister tell us the extent to
which other member countries have enacted similar provisions to provide
immunity for British citizens and those in the categories that are
excluded by the draft order? Of the 20 member countries of the
organisation, how many have taken that action to extend the necessary
immunities and privileges to date? These immunities and privileges are
serious. Subject to the assurances that I have sought, we have no
objection in principle to this order, but I hope the Minister will
accept that the creation of privileges of this sort is an important
matter and should be done sparingly and only when
necessary. 2.35
pm Mr.
Jeremy Browne (Taunton) (LD): I echo the words of the
Conservative spokesman and recognise that this is not a particularly
controversial order. I do not anticipate it detaining the Committee for
very long. I wish to join those who have spoken in paying tribute to
the work of CERN and the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research
Council, whose offices I had the privilege to visit before I became a
Member of Parliament. I admire their work and their leadership in
developing science. I also pay tribute to the Government for their
commitment to science
funding. Following on
from the points made by the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West
(Mr. Brady), I would like to widen the debate slightly and say that we
have to be extremely cautious about the continued extension of
diplomatic privileges. They are of course not to be conferred lightly.
While reading the order, I was struck by the some of the
exemptions from duties(whether
customs or excise) and taxes on the importation of furniture and
personal effects (including one motor vehicle
each) and
the exemption from
income tax in respect of
salaries and so on. Will
the Minister comment on how sparingly the Government intend to confer
these privileges? Obviously, there will be a degree of unease in any
open, democratic society about their being too widely available.
Otherwise, we concur with the need for the
order. 2.37
pm Mr.
Hoon: I thank the hon. Members for Altrincham and Sale,
West and for Taunton (Mr. Browne) for their questions and
contributions. I emphasise that no Government confer diplomatic
privileges lightly. It is, as both hon. Gentlemen observed, a serious
matter. Such privileges are not conferred lightly, but equally it is
necessary that the UK should live up to its international obligations,
especially those entered into by previous Governments but which bind
this Government unless and until there is an international agreement to
change such treaty arrangements. I mention these matters lightly, just
to emphasise to the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West that
simply saying it is possible to change the international treaties that
we are bound by as a country is one thing; actually doing something
about it is quite another. As the Opposition seem to be somewhat
obsessed with changing our international obligations, I shall give the
hon. Gentleman the opportunity to explain
how. Mr.
Brady: I am grateful to the Minister. Does he not agree
that it is more likely that a country may succeed in renegotiating its
obligations if it has a Government who are able to say where they stand
on the important issues regarding European policy and what their
obligations should be? Perhaps if the Government had a position on,
say, the European constitution, we might have more influence than with
a Government who refuse to state their
position.
Mr.
Hoon: I risk being caught out of order if I speculate too
much about the future of the European constitution. However, I am
making a more fundamental point about international treaty obligations
which this Government recognise we are bound by and are carrying out.
Interestingly, this particular obligation was ratified in a time frame
similar to that of the European convention on human rights, which I
know the Conservative Opposition are attached tobut not so
attached that they do not wish to change its
terms. The
Chairman: Order. The Minister is trying the Chairs
patience. Mr.
Hoon: I was enjoying myself, Mr. Cummings.
In answer to the specific
points that the Opposition have been grappling with, there has been no
meeting of the organisation so far in the UK, but I confirm that if
there were meetings here and staff or representatives travelled to
them, they would have the privileges and immunities covered by the
order. Indeed, that is probably its primary purpose. No staff are
currently based in the United Kingdom. However, two council members are
based hereone is a DTI official and the other is an employee of
the PPARC. So far, 10
countries have ratified the protocol, which will ensure reciprocal
treatment for UK nationals. As has been mentioned, however, the
privileges and immunities will not cover UK citizens who are normally
based in the UK.
Mr.
Brady: Before the Minister concludes, will he say whether
the immunities will apply while staff and council members travelling to
Geneva via the UK are in
transit? Mr.
Hoon: I am sure that they would, on general principles,
but given Genevas location and that of the other member
countries, those people would be taking a rather roundabout
route. Question put
and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has
considered the draft European Organisation for Nuclear Research
(Privileges and Immunities) Order
2006. Committee
rose at nineteen minutes to Three
oclock.
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