Bailey, Mr. Adrian (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op)
Battle, John (Leeds, West) (Lab)
Burt, Lorely (Solihull) (LD)
Campbell, Mr. Gregory (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Coaker, Mr. Vernon (Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's Treasury)
Cooper, Rosie (West Lancashire) (Lab)
Creagh, Mary (Wakefield) (Lab)
Davies, Mr. Quentin (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)
Dodds, Mr. Nigel (Belfast, North) (DUP)
Donaldson, Mr. Jeffrey M. (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
Durkan, Mark (Foyle) (SDLP)
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester) (Lab)
Harris, Mr. Tom (Glasgow, South) (Lab)
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen (Jarrow) (Lab)
Hermon, Lady (North Down) (UUP)
Irranca-Davies, Huw (Ogmore) (Lab)
Joyce, Mr. Eric (Falkirk) (Lab)
Lidington, Mr. David (Aylesbury) (Con)
McCrea, Dr. William (South Antrim) (DUP)
McDonnell, Dr. Alasdair (Belfast, South) (SDLP)
McGrady, Mr. Eddie (South Down) (SDLP)
Mackay, Mr. Andrew (Bracknell) (Con)
Moffat, Anne (East Lothian) (Lab)
Mulholland, Greg (Leeds, North-West) (LD)
Öpik, Lembit (Montgomeryshire) (LD)
Paisley, Rev. Ian (North Antrim) (DUP)
Pound, Stephen (Ealing, North) (Lab)
Robathan, Mr. Andrew (Blaby) (Con)
Robertson, Mr. Laurence (Tewkesbury) (Con)
Robinson, Mrs. Iris (Strangford) (DUP)
Robinson, Mr. Peter (Belfast, East) (DUP)
Ruane, Chris (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)
Selous, Andrew (South-West Bedfordshire) (Con)
Simpson, David (Upper Bann) (DUP)
Wallace, Mr. Ben (Lancaster and Wyre) (Con)
Walter, Mr. Robert (North Dorset) (Con)
Wilson, Sammy (East Antrim) (DUP)
attended the Committee
Alan Sandall, Jenny McCullough, Committee Clerks
The following also attended, pursuant to Standing Order No. 109(4)
Smith, Angela E. (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland)
Woodward, Mr. Shaun (Parliamentary Under- Secretary of State for Northern Ireland)
[Mr. Joe Benton in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
The Secretary of State was asked—
Orthopaedic Centres
2.30 pm
1. Mrs. Iris Robinson (Strangford) (DUP): What plans he has to introduce orthopaedic centres at hospitals outside Belfast. [7309]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun Woodward): The developing better services strategy announced by a previous Health Minister in February 2003 recognised the fact that, with the continuing trend towards an aging population, the need for appropriate fracture services was increasingly important. The DBS strategy therefore confirmed the role of Musgrave Park hospital as a regional orthopaedic centre whose services will continue to be enhanced. Plans are under way to provide in-patient fracture services at Craigavon area hospital and Antrim area hospital.
Mrs. Robinson: I thank the Minister for that response, and it is reassuring that he is looking into providing a service at Craigavon and Antrim hospitals. What plans are there to attract more orthopaedic staff to the national health service, given the large waiting lists, and how does he intend to deal with the backlog caused by those lists?
Mr. Woodward: I am looking into the backlog across the health service. We are recruiting more staff for orthopaedic provision—we had a significant deficiency before—and we are continuing to do so. One of the major things that I am trying to bring to the health service in Northern Ireland is a strategic focus on what might be described as real priorities. Waiting times and waiting lists are a major problem in the health service in Northern Ireland, and next Monday I will be making a major announcement to bring Northern Ireland in line with England on waiting times, which will include orthopaedic services.
Mr. Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op): How do waiting times in Northern Ireland compare with those in England?
Mr. Woodward: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for providing me with an opportunity to comment on waiting times and waiting lists in Northern Ireland. It would be true to say that people in Northern Ireland might think that they have a health service that, in some parts of Northern Ireland, has completely forgotten them. It is an entirely unacceptable system where people sometimes wait more than three or four years for a procedure such as a hip replacement, despite the fact that Northern Ireland has received the same amount of money as England and that, on average, the standard is 11 per cent. per capita above that for England.
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So, Northern Ireland has had the money, but it has not had the modernisation or the reform. At the same time, thousands of people are on waiting lists, not getting treated. That has to change. I announced yesterday that it would change, and next Monday we will bring forward proposals that will also impose sanctions on trusts that keep people on excessive waiting lists.
The Chairman: Before I call the Rev. Ian Paisley to ask question No. 2, I have to tell the Committee that I will be unable to call any supplementary questions, as this matter will be raised on the Adjournment later this afternoon.
Human Rights Commission
2. Rev. Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): If he will make a statement on the appointment of members to, and the chairman of, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. [7310]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Angela E. Smith): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced to the House on 16 June by means of a written statement the fact that he had appointed a new chief commissioner and seven new commissioners to the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. They will join the two current serving commissioners in September.
Rev. Ian Paisley: This is a very important—
The Chairman: Order. I am sorry, but I thought I had explained to the hon. Gentleman that there will be no supplementary questions, as this subject is to be raised on the Adjournment.
Education and Library Boards
3. Mr. Eddie McGrady (South Down) (SDLP): Whether he expects plans requested from education and library boards relating to reshaping the schools' estate and sharing services to include proposals for closure and amalgamations of schools. [7311]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Angela E. Smith): I expect proposals from managing authorities in relation to reshaping the schools' estate to include a range of measures to ensure that all our schools can provide a high-quality education for all pupils. These proposals might include closure, amalgamation or more innovative solutions where they are educationally and financially viable. I am also expecting proposals by the end of this month for shared services that will release additional resources to the front line and, in particular, the classroom.
Mr. McGrady: I thank the Minister for her reply, which raised some of the fears that I have on this matter. The considerable sums of money required for education in Northern Ireland are now in deficit. Of the £12.3 million allocated, one third—£4 million—was addressed to the particular directive to the education boards on what I assume to be, and what I think the Minister has confirmed to be, restructuring. Will she ensure that there is full consultation on any such proposals, particularly as they will affect rural communities and schools adversely and disproportionately? Will she further ensure that any
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proposals are rural policy proofed and in accordance with section 75 of the Human Rights Act 1998?
Angela E. Smith: I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. Wherever there are possible school closures or amalgamations, a development proposal has to be produced by the board and must be subject to full consultation before coming to the Minister for approval or otherwise. The issue involves not just small schools, but ensuring quality of education. Rural areas perhaps have different needs than some more urban areas. A number of factors must be taken into account, but I give the hon. Gentleman a categorical assurance of full consultation first.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): The Gallagher report indicated that anything up to 120 schools could be affected by rationalisation proposals, while the Burns report suggested a figure of about 90 such schools. The Minister has talked about the entitlement framework and the amalgamations required to achieve the appropriate number of GCSE subjects in schools. Does she have any estimate of the effect on school closures that the Costello proposals will have if they are put through after the consultation period ends tomorrow?
Angela E. Smith: It is a little early to look at numbers. I cannot give the hon. Gentleman any figures, but I will certainly come back to him as things progress and we get a clearer picture. The Costello proposals are not forcing school closures or amalgamations, nor are they about building new schools with amalgamations. We are talking about 45,000 surplus places across Northern Ireland, and another 37,500 anticipated over the next 10 years.
I want schools that are fit for purpose in terms of the physical and learning environments. I am happy to keep the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues informed at every stage. I know that he wants to talk to me about the workings of Costello and the entitlement framework. We need to ensure that all pupils are in first-class accommodation, being taught the necessary range of subjects and receiving a fully fit-for-purpose education at all levels.
Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): Is the Minister aware that the one aspect of schooling in Northern Ireland that suffers from demand exceeding supply is integrated education? What strategies are the Government putting in place to ensure that those who wish to send their children to integrated schools can do so without having to bus them many miles from home?