The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Atkins,
Charlotte
(Staffordshire, Moorlands)
(Lab)
Bellingham,
Mr. Henry
(North-West Norfolk)
(Con)
Berry,
Roger
(Kingswood)
(Lab)
Bottomley,
Peter
(Worthing, West)
(Con)
Burgon,
Colin
(Elmet)
(Lab)
Cryer,
Mrs. Ann
(Keighley)
(Lab)
Devine,
Mr. Jim
(Livingston)
(Lab)
Ellwood,
Mr. Tobias
(Bournemouth, East)
(Con)
Flello,
Mr. Robert
(Stoke-on-Trent, South)
(Lab)
Foster,
Mr. Michael
(Worcester)
(Lab)
Godsiff,
Mr. Roger
(Birmingham, Sparkbrook and Small Heath)
(Lab)
Hughes,
Simon
(North Southwark and Bermondsey)
(LD)
McCarthy,
Kerry
(Bristol, East)
(Lab)
Penrose,
John
(Weston-super-Mare)
(Con)
Prentice,
Bridget
(Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Constitutional
Affairs)
Willott,
Jenny
(Cardiff, Central)
(LD)
Wilson,
Mr. Rob
(Reading, East)
(Con)
Hannah
Weston, Committee
Clerk
attended the Committee
First
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Monday 19
March
2007
[Derek
Conway
in the
Chair]
Draft Representation of the People (England and Wales) and the Representation of the People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2007
4.30
pm
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs
(Bridget Prentice):
I beg to
move,
That the
Committee has considered draft Representation of the People (England
and Wales) and the Representation of the People
(Combination of Polls) (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations
2007.
The
Chairman:
With this it will be convenient to discuss the
draft Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales)
Regulations 2007.
Bridget
Prentice:
It is a delight as always to serve under your
expert chairmanship, Mr. Conway, and I hope that the
Committee will debate the regulations in the way that you would
expect.
Turning first
to the draft Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales)
Regulations 2007, I wish to ensure that the Committee has before it the
most recent version because there was a small but crucial error in the
previous one. In the correct version, the commencement provision in
regulation 1(2) should refer to the 26 March 2007. The
previous version incorrectly referred to 27 March. That
was a simple typographical error but, had it been left, the regulations
would not have applied to the whole timetable of actions for the local
mayoral elections that will take place this
May.
Despite the fact
that the document had been read through by a number of individuals, the
error was not spotted until after the instrument had been laid before
and scrutinised by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.
Therefore, the Government have had to withdraw and relay the draft
after correcting the date. Nevertheless, it is crucial that the
instrument be brought into effect by 27 March, for the beginning of the
timetable for the May elections. I wish to put on the record my extreme
thanks for the assistance provided by the House authorities, and for
the agreement ofthe Chairman of the Joint Committee to allow
this Committee to debate the current version before the Joint Committee
reconsiders it. Any subsequent motion for approval on the Floor of the
House will take place only after the Joint Committee has reconsidered
the instrument. I am grateful for the co-operation, advice and help
that we have received on the matter.
The purpose
of the mayoral elections regulations is to implement the changes made
to parliamentary elections by the Electoral Administration Act 2006, to
ensure consistency of practice between the conduct of elections for
local councillors and those for local authority mayors held on or after
3 May 2007. That includes changes to nomination
procedurescandidates will now be able to use their common names
on nomination forms and papers. The rules on the use of authorised
descriptions by candidates standing on behalf of registered political
parties are amended to reflect changes to the Political Parties,
Elections and Referendums Act 2000. Returning officers will now be able
to correct minor errors on nomination papers. New security measures
were introduced by the 2006 Act, and those will now be applied in
mayoral elections: separate security markings and unique identifying
marks will be required for ballot papers. Ballot paper counterfoils
will be replaced by corresponding number lists. Postal and proxy postal
voters will be required to provide both their signature and date of
birth when returning ballot papers. Alterations are being made to the
circumstances in which a person may be given a tendered vote, and new
requirements concerning the information and accessibility of
information to be provided to electors by returning officers are being
introduced.
Changes are
being made to the rules concerning persons who may be admitted to
polling stations, and to observe election counts. Amendments are being
made to provide for the transmission of information to a presiding
officer about alterations to the electoral register that take effect on
the day of a poll. The regulations will facilitate the introduction of
a scheme for the anonymous registration of certain electors, which will
come into force on 1 June 2007. Changes are also being made to
arrangements for the retention and inspection of election documents
following a poll.
A
full set of forms is appended to the rules, reflecting the changes that
are being made to implement the2006
Act.
Simon
Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): The Minister
has summarised the main changes set out in the notes. Do we deduce
therefore that the consequence of the regulations, as in the others
that we shall debate in a moment, is that the Government have not
organised themselves, so that signing at the polling station will not
now happen this year for the mayoral elections or for any others? The
Department for Constitutional Affairs has slipped up in both respects,
contrary to the advice of the Electoral
Commission.
Bridget
Prentice:
During the elections, there will not be signing
in polling stations because of that particular part of the regulations,
but we shall come back to such
matters.
The
regulations also increase the election expenses limit for candidates at
mayoral elections. The limit is now calculated by taking £2,362
as the base figure and adding 5.9p for every entry on the register of
electors. That allows for inflation, and the change was made on the
recommendation of the Electoral Commission. The 2002 limit was based on
a figure of £2,000 plus 5p for every entry on the
register.
When
approved, the regulations will replace the Local Authorities (Mayoral
Elections) (England and Wales) Regulations 2002 that currently apply to
the
election of local mayors. The detailed rules for the conduct of mayoral
elections are based on the rules contained in the Local Elections
(Principal Areas) (England and Wales) Rules 2006. Throughout May 2006,
advisory groups consisting of key stakeholders with practical and
in-depth knowledge of running elections were asked to provide feedback
on the appropriateness of the principal area rules. In addition, the
Electoral Commission was also consulted on the detailed provisions in
the
regulations.
I
come now to the second set of changes to regulations, the
Representation of the People (England and Wales) and the Representation
of the People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales) (Amendment)
Regulations 2007. Consequential changes are being made to the decision
not to implement the provision in the Electoral Administration Act 2006
that required a voter in polling stations to provide a signature before
being issued with a ballot paper. As a result, we are therefore
amending the prescribed forms in the Representation of the People
(England and Wales) and the Representation of the People (Combination
of Polls) (England and Wales) Regulations to remove the signature
column from forms L2 and M2 and to remove references to electors
signing for their ballot paper on the official polling cards. The
regulations will also remove references to electors signing for their
ballot papers from the guidance for voters that is issued at combined
polls. They will also correct minor drafting errors in the
regulations.
The
Electoral Commission has been consulted on the provisions in the
regulations and, on that basis, I recommend them to the
Committee.
4.38
pm
Mr.
Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): It is a
pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Conway. I
declare an interest as a former practising
barrister.
Mr.
Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con): And a
voter.
Mr.
Bellingham:
Indeed. Can we have a quick look at the
Representation of the People (England and Wales) and the Representation
of the People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales) (Amendment)
Regulations, the second set of regulations to which the Minister
referred? Obviously, the decision not to implement the provisions under
the Electoral Administration Act 2006 requiring voters in polling
stations to provide a signature before they were issued with a ballot
paper is regrettable. We know why the Government have to make that
requirement and the policy background to it, but Opposition Members
regarded paragraph 75 of schedule 1 of the Electoral Administration
Act, which inserted the new rule 37, as good news. We were concerned
about the increasing instance of fraud at elections, of criminal
dishonesty at polling stations and of stolen identity cards, and we
welcomed the requirement for voters to sign for their ballot
paper.
The problem with
the new rules was that there was no provision for electors to be
refused a ballot paper if he or she refused to provide a signature. Why
did the Minister not listen to wiser counsels that prevailed at the
time and flag up that potential problem? I was not
an Opposition spokesman at the time, but the issuewas raised as
the Bill went through Committee and concerns were expressed. It is a
pity that the Government did not listen to those wiser counsels,
because since then the Electoral Commission has commented that the
implementation of the signing provisions must be based on clarity and
certainty. It takes the view that unless the presiding officer has an
explicit power to withhold the ballot paper from those refusing to
sign, there will not be that certainty and clarity. I go along with the
Electoral Commission when it says that to proceed on the basis of no
sanction would lead to confusion and inconsistency in practice. The
Government had to accept the commissions view and take
actionhence the regulations.
The Government have made it
clear that they will bring forward primary legislation to correct this
problem. Can the Minister confirm that primary legislation is needed to
do that, and if so, when will it be introduced? Why did the Department
get it wrong? It is regrettable that it did so, and it would have saved
a great deal of trouble if it had got it right first time.
May we now look at the
regulations before the Committee on mayoral elections? We certainly go
along with what the Government are proposing; it all makes a great deal
of sense, and what the Minister said stacks up. I am pleased that
throughout May 2005, various advisory groups with practical and
in-depth knowledge of running elections provided feedback ona
number of points, as the Minister made clear. Furthermore, we support
the detail of the regulations, which, we feel, make sense and have been
well thought out. However, paragraph 7.14 of the explanatory
memorandumthe Minister mentioned this point, which I should
have picked up at the timesays
that
amendments
consequential upon the instruction of a scheme for the anonymous
registration of certain electors... come into force on 1 June
2007.
Can she tell us a
little more about the scheme for the anonymous registration of certain
electors? Who are those electors, and what exactly does
anonymous registration mean? Can she assure the
Committee that there are no possible loopholes in that
provision?
As I said,
we support the regulations, and we obviously understand why the
Government are having to act in the way that they are. However, can the
Minister do all that she can to ensure that her Department gets it
right in future? It seems as if a lot of things in her Department are
not going as well as they should. For example, the freedom of
information provisions have caused a huge amount of concern. There are
also many problems with legal aid, the magistrates courts system and
the county courts system, and I hope that the Minister will reflect on
and learn lessons from that. However, on the basis that those lessons
will be learned, and that the Minister has no alternative but to bring
in the regulations, we certainly endorse what she is doing and we will
not vote against them. That said, can we have a clear assurance that
legislation to introduce the original intention will be introduced as
soon as possible, presumably through primary legislation? If the
Minister can answer those points, our minds will be, if not completely
at rest, certainly more at rest.
4.43
pm
Simon
Hughes:
I am very happy, Mr. Conway, to serve
under your chairmanship. I do not think that you have chaired a
Committee that I have sat on until
today.
I have three
questions for the Minister. The first predictably duplicates the
question that she has just heard. I have still not heard an adequate
explanationas to why the bit of the plan to make elections
more secure has not been delivered, other than due to
internal Department maladministration or
incompetence. We know that the Government resisted having identifiers;
we have been through that battle. It is a battle yet to fight, but the
agreed bit of the plan was not a matter of party division. It is
disappointing, to put it mildly, that we are not able in this
Mays elections to take one step that would at least put off
people who might be minded to come to the polling station with the
intention of fiddling the system. We all have the same objective and
the same interest, but one of the things that we must do is restore the
systems credibility. It would therefore be helpful to have a
clear and honest explanation of what has happened.
My second question is not
entirely answered by reading the regulations, although it was the
subject of one of the Electoral Commissions responses to them.
What guarantee is there under the regulations that people will not
abuse the system, as they did in the past, by applying for tens or
hundreds of postal or proxy votes to be sent to one address? It is
clear from the evidence in the Birmingham case, if not in others, that
many votes were sent to one address, and the same allegation has been
made in Tower Hamlets, although the investigation there has not been
fully concluded. Paragraph 33 of the Electoral Commissions
response stated:
We would also wish to
see an amendment to Regulation 14 to require the
ERO
the electoral
registration
officer
and the
Returning Officer to send all electoral correspondence to an address
supplied under paragraph 6 of Regulation 31G. This may require
consequential amendments to the Regulations regarding the address for
sending poll cards and postal ballot
papers.
I am
keenagain, I am sure that the Minister shares this
objectiveto ensure that someone cannot go around signing up
loads of people, who will, in effect, be handing over their votes, and
then go to some house somewhere and fill in the forms in their tens or
hundreds. I need an assurance on that.
The third issue is that the
regulations contain provisions on the checking of documents after the
election. I do not know whether this is the case in your borough,
Mr. Conway, but there has been great difficulty elsewhere in
obtaining marked registers quickly or, in some cases, at all. That has
certainly been the case in my borough, in Woking after the previous
general election and elsewhere. In some cases, the marked registers
went missing; those from the Woking borough council area were meant to
be taken from the count at the town hall to a warehouse in the east end
of London, and people were supposed to be able to apply through the
High Court to get them, but that did not happen and the registers
disappeared. What guarantee can the Minister give us that all marked
registers will be available and, more importantly, that they will be
available promptly in written and electronic form, as appropriate?
Everybody who wants to check the turnout, the accuracy of the figures
and so on has an interest in making sure that they can follow up the
election events. Those are my three questions, and I should be grateful
for an
answer.
4.48
pm
Peter
Bottomley (Worthing, West) (Con): We know that the word
cleave means both to stick together and to split apart,
and I congratulate the Minister and her team on demonstrating in
paragraph 7.3 of the explanatory memorandum to the Draft Representation
of the People (England and Wales) and the
Representation of the People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales)
(Amendment) Regulations 2007 that the word sanction
also has two meaningsto permit and to put a penalty on. In this
case, I think that it is designed to say that the withholding of a
ballot paper is permitted, which is a useful combination of both
meanings of the word sanction.
Given the Ministers
explanation and the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for
North-West Norfolk and the hon. Member for North Southwark and
Bermondsey, the situation is pretty clear. Willthe Minister
confirm, however, that although the Government announced that they aim
to bring in changes to primary legislation, they have chosen not to do
so before the coming elections? I think that that explanation would
satisfy the Committee, and it would be useful to have the situation
made doubly clear.
One
issue that concerns me relates to anonymous voting. Clearly, particular
individuals should not have their names and addresses tied down if
there are security threats against themit may be a matter of
witness protection or something like thatbut there would be
concern if the number of anonymous people in each area was not known.
If there turned out to be 200 or 300 anonymous voters in a ward or a
division in a county election, people would start raising eyebrows. We
therefore need an assurance that there will be some kind of
invigilation to ensure that no electoral ward is packed with people who
are not known and who cannot be canvassed or solicited by
candidates.
My next
point is slightly apart from the regulations, but I hope that I will be
permitted to ask whether the Minister can confirm that there is no
intention of using for voting purposes the biometric system envisaged
for passports and identity cardsor is that one of the things
for which we ought to be preparing
ourselves?
Finally, we
know that there is an obligation on returning officers and their staff
to perforate voting papers. We also know that sometimes some groups
fail to perforate them, and that at the count it turns out that
significant numbers of voters in a particular area have been
disqualified. We can understand one voting paper not being perforated
for one reason or another, but not a whole book not being perforated,
and perhaps 50 or 150 voters being disqualified because of that
failure. Can a review mechanism be introduced whereby the candidates
standing for election and their agents could absolve the returning
officer from that obligation, so that a large number of people who have
made the effort to go to a polling station, to return a
postal ballot or to organise a proxy are not disqualified because of an
unintended error by people in the polling
station?
4.53pm
Bridget
Prentice:
I want to try as best I can to give hon. Members
the reassurances that they have asked for. First, I apologise for the
fact that we have not been able to introduce a measure for the upcoming
elections to allow people to sign in polling stations. That is a matter
of regret for me, as it is for other members of the Committee,
particularly as I have said in previous Committees that my borough was
one of the pilot areas for signing at the last elections. Indeed, I
signed in my ward when I voted, so I know that the system can
work.
However, the
regulation was not drafted sufficiently tightly to satisfy those with
legal expertise that it could not be challenged. Therefore, we decided
that it would be better to withdraw it. As the hon. Member for
North-West Norfolk rightly says, such a measure must be introduced
under primary legislation, which we will introduce as soon as we can,
but I cannot say when. It is for people much further up the food chain
than I am to say when such things can be
done.
It may be helpful
to offer a clarification. One reason why there may have been a
difficulty was that the wording was different from the wording of the
provision that allows signing in Northern Ireland. That is why the
people with legal expertise felt that there could be a challenge. I
cannot clarify the situation much further than
that.
Simon
Hughes:
Do I deduce that a Back Bencher who chose to offer
to take such legislation through the House in the private
Members ballot next year would have the support of the
Department for Constitutional Affairs, without getting in the way of
the Governments
timetable?
Bridget
Prentice:
If a Member chose to introduce such
legislation privately through the ballot, I am sure that we would be
happy to give it a fair wind. Hopefully, we would have time before that
to table such legislation, but I can see no reason why we would not be
happy for it to be introduced through the private Members
ballot.
I am grateful
to the hon. Member for North-West Norfolk for the support that he has
given to the regulations as a whole. I accept that errors have been
made, but I hope that we have managed to rectify them. He listed a
series of other things that were happening in my dynamic Department,
all of which are good. Freedom of information and the reform of legal
aidare good things, but you will not let me debate them,
Mr. Conway. We are supposed to be discussing electoral
regulations.
On the
question about postal votes going to one address, the regulations that
we introduced last year provide that a request for redirection of a
postal or proxy vote must be responded to by notifying the elector of
the decision on the application; in other words, the notification will
go to the electors address, not the redirection address. It
would not be easy for someone to amass a number of postal votes and
have them redirected. There has to be communication
between the returning officer and the elector about where the postal or
proxy vote should go, and the postal voter has to give a reason for
wanting the postal vote to go to an address other than his
own.
Simon
Hughes:
I hear what the Minister says, but that does not
solve the problem. Let us say that 100 people name 26 Vauxhall Bridge
road as the address to which they want their postal votes to be sent.
Unless a system is in place that allows the registration officer to
spot that and to intervene, it would still be possible for one person
improperly to fill in all the postal votes sent to that
address.
Bridget
Prentice:
The system does allow the returning officer to
intervene. In a sense, officials realised that something was amiss in
the local elections at Tower Hamlets, and through their
interventionthe police were brought in, in order to discover
the potential fraud. We have tightened the system so that officials
have the power to intervene if they think that a number of votes are
going to one address and it seems not to be
legitimate.
Peter
Bottomley:
I can confirm what the Minister said about
electoral returning officers writing to registered voters asking them
to confirm that they want postal votes. It is good to hear that they
also have the power to take action if they believe that too great a
concentration of postal votes is being redirected to one address. Will
the Minister double checkshe can write to members of the
Committee about thisthat electoral returning officers
themselves believe that they have sufficient power to take effective
action if they think that something is wrong? Can they check; and if
still unconvinced, can they take further
action?
Bridget
Prentice:
I am more than happy to write to the Committee
to reiterate that returning officers can use their new and existing
powers to ensure that such situations do not arise. We are working with
them, the Association of Electoral Administrators, the Electoral
Commission, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and the
police to ensure that everyone is aware of the available powers; and I
am encouraging them as much as possible to ensure that those powers are
used.
Simon
Hughes:
The hon. Member for Worthing, West may be right;
however, my understanding is that the electoral registration officer
will write to those who have applied for a postal or proxy vote at the
address where they live, but that those people are not required to
provide confirmation. So there is no confirmationpeople are
simply being told that their vote is going somewhere else. Is that not
right, or do they have to provide confirmation through a second
communication saying, Yes, I confirm that I want my vote to go
to x
address?
Bridget
Prentice:
The regulations insist that those who wish to
have their votes redirected to another address give a reason, and the
returning officer will write to them asking for confirmation of that
request. The hon. Gentleman is right that they do not, at
that stage, have to confirm it again, but I will make absolutely sure
that I am not misleading the Committee.
Peter
Bottomley:
Could a note be sent to members of the
Committee on that point? My experience is that the voter is expected to
answer the electoral returning officer, giving confirmation in a
franked envelope. The hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey
has exposed the question whether, if no confirmation is given, the
application for postal votes should be regarded as null and void. A
letter of confirmation on that point would be
useful.
Bridget
Prentice:
I take hon. Gentlemans point, and I will
ensure that the Committee receives an answerto it.
As for anonymous registered
voters, local registration officers will provide the Secretary of State
with the total number of anonymous electors. I want to reassure the
Committee on this issue. As the hon. Member for Worthing, West said,
the provision is generally for people who need witness protection
orfor those fleeing domestic violence, and so on. The
returning officer will usually take the advice of the police when
determining whether someone should be an anonymous registered voter.
This is not meant to be an ex-directory system. The poll number will be
listed at the end of the ward register; it is simply the name and
address that will not be listed.
We do not have plans at this
time to introduce biometric technology. We are working slowly through
the technology of e-voting and e-counting that is available to us, but
we are not quite at the stage when we would even consider a biometric
system.
Mr.
Ellwood:
I am sorry to press the Minister, but she did say
at this time. Is she suggesting that we are likely to
have such a system in the
future?
Bridget
Prentice:
No, I am not. I knew that as soon as I said,
at this time, someone would think, Aha, you
mean that you are going to do it next week. No, there are no
current plansto use the technical
term.
I have every
sympathy with the point made by the hon. Member for North Southwark and
Bermondsey.I know the importance to political parties of
havinga marked register as quickly as possible, and we are
introducing a marked postal vote register. The administrators will be
able to produce a marked register for both the polling station and
absent voters, on request. It is expected to be available
betweenseven to 14 days after the election. Obviously, local
circumstances may dictate otherwise, but we expect them to produce the
marked register within that
time.
The hon. Member
for Worthing, West asked about a review system for disqualified votes
in cases where the papers have not been perforated and thus not
included in the count. I shall clarify the situation for him, but the
voting papers will be different for the e-counting system from those
used in the past. I want to be absolutely sure that the perforation
issue will remain as important; I am not sure that it necessarily will
under the new ballot paper
system.
Peter
Bottomley:
Forgive me, Mr. Conway, for not
raising this issue earlier, but there has been discussion about voters
signing for papers. To switch subjects slightly, one of the most common
reasons why a vote is disqualified is when an elector signs the ballot
paper or gives some other indication of who they are, whether real or
not. It would be useful if the Minister consulted local election
officers, to make sure that voters know that that is a way to lose
their vote, rather than use their vote, and that they should not do it
unintentionally.
Bridget
Prentice:
Again, I appreciate what thehon.
Gentleman is saying. As we are all intimately concerned with elections,
whether for ourselves or our parties, the loss of any vote always
causes grief. Of course, we have changed things in recent years and
given returning officers much more flexibility in determining what is
acceptable as a properly marked ballot paper, but I take the hon.
Gentlemans point. I am always in favour of providing electors
with as much education and information as possible to make the process
simple, clear and transparent, and I shall ensure that the Electoral
Commission and local authority organisations do everything that they
can to ensure that voters are aware of the best way to make their
opinions known, not just on 3 May but in the future. On that basis, I
commend the regulations to the
Committee.
Question
put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That
the Committee has considered the draft Representation of the People
(England and Wales) and the Representation of the
People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales)
(Amendment) Regulations
2007.
Draft
Local authorities (Mayoral elections) (England and Wales) regulations
2007
Resolved,
That
the Committee has considered the draft Local Authorities (Mayoral
Elections) (England and Wales) Regulations
2007.
[Bridget
Prentice.]
Committee
rose at five minutes past Five
oclock.