The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mrs.
Janet
Dean
Abbott,
Ms Diane
(Hackney, North and Stoke Newington)
(Lab)
Alexander,
Danny
(Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey)
(LD)
Brennan,
Kevin
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Evennett,
Mr. David
(Bexleyheath and Crayford)
(Con)
Francois,
Mr. Mark
(Rayleigh)
(Con)
Gauke,
Mr. David
(South-West Hertfordshire)
(Con)
Johnson,
Ms Diana R.
(Kingston upon Hull, North)
(Lab)
Laws,
Mr. David
(Yeovil)
(LD)
McKechin,
Ann
(Glasgow, North)
(Lab)
MacShane,
Mr. Denis
(Rotherham)
(Lab)
Mallaber,
Judy
(Amber Valley)
(Lab)
Moon,
Mrs. Madeleine
(Bridgend)
(Lab)
Neill,
Robert
(Bromley and Chislehurst)
(Con)
Simpson,
Alan
(Nottingham, South)
(Lab)
Skinner,
Mr. Dennis
(Bolsover)
(Lab)
Timms,
Mr. Stephen
(Chief Secretary to the
Treasury)Tyrie,
Mr. Andrew
(Chichester)
(Con)
Hannah
Weston, Committee
Clerk
attended the Committee
Second
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Wednesday 13
December
2006
[Mrs.
Janet Dean in the
Chair]
Tax Credits (Claims and Notifications) (Amendment) Regulations 2006
2.30
pm
Danny
Alexander (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey)
(LD): I beg to
move,
That the
Committee has considered the Tax Credits (Claims and Notifications)
(Amendment) Regulations 2006 (S.I., 2006, No.
2689).
It is a
pleasure, as always, to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs.
Dean. It is good to have the chance to debate the regulations. We do
not seek to overturn them because we well understand the need to ensure
that changes in circumstances are reported adequately. We also
understand that they are part of the package of measures on tax credits
that oblige complainants to report changes in circumstances in a
shorter time scale and that extend the range of changes in
circumstances that must be reported.
I want to probe the Chief
Secretary about the implementation of the regulations. They appear to
be clear, but we are concerned that there are likely to be a number of
hard cases caught by the regulations in which it might be useful to
have discretion. I would like assurance from him about such
cases.
The
regulations extend the range of changes of circumstances that claimants
will be obliged to report to include: changes to the hours that
claimants normally work that take them below the 30-hour or 16-hour
thresholds for entitlement to various elements of working tax credits;
ceasing to be responsible for a qualifying child or young person; a
child or young person ceasing to qualify for any reason; and, of
course, the death of a child or young person that therefore causes the
loss of entitlement to tax credits.
The regulations will also
reduce from three months to one the time limit for notifying changes in
circumstances that it is mandatory to report. It is important to note
that any failure to notify within that period may result in a financial
penalty. The regulations make that clear and I am sure that the Chief
Secretary will confirm it. Any such financial penalty would, of course,
be on top of any overpayment that might accrue. Given that changes to
the disregard rules are also being introduced as part of the package,
overpayments might be less likely to accrue in some of those
circumstances.
I am
concerned about several aspects of the regulations, particularly the
uncertainty about the nature of the obligations that they create. For
example, there are 600,000 agency workers in the UK economy with no
normal working pattern. In my constituency, in the highlands of
Scotland, significant numbers of people, such as those who work in the
tourist sector, work on a seasonal basis. As far as I can see, the
tight
period of one month for notifying changes in circumstances would apply
to such people, but how are they to judge whether their normal working
hours have dipped below 30 or 16 hours a week when there is sometimes
no way for them to establish what their normal working hours are in the
first place?
Groups
that might be disadvantaged in that way include those who the
Government would normally expect to support, such as student nurses who
work for agencies between their studies. If the regulations are taken
at face value, fluctuations in the hours worked by people who fall into
that category could lead to them feeling that they must report their
circumstances almost on a weekly basis for fear of being caught out by
the regulations and, perhaps, fined as a
result.
Mr.
Mark Francois (Rayleigh) (Con): Does the hon. Gentleman
accept that there is something of a parallel with the Child Support
Agency here? One difficulty in getting accurate assessments in CSA
cases is caused by absent parents whose income tends to
fluctuateoften because they work part-time. That has been a
particular problem for the CSA. Is the hon. Gentleman, like me,
interested to hear how Her Majestys Revenue and Customs thinks
that it can get around that problem given that the CSA has not been
able
to?
Danny
Alexander: The hon. Gentleman makes a sensible point and I
look forward to hearing the Chief Secretarys answer. If he is
confident that HMRC can get around problems that the CSA cannot, that
may be another reason why giving more powers over child support to the
HMRC might have been a better way forward than that which was announced
today. However, as I do not wish to test your patience, Mrs.
Dean, I shall not pursue that further in this brief
discussion.
There are
cases in my constituency of people who work on a seasonal basis and who
may not be able to predict when the next bit of work is coming. They
might work in the summer or autumn, or there might be a couple of weeks
in October when there is work. In the course of a one-month period,
there may or may not be further weeks of work. It is hard for them to
be clear about whether they have dipped below or risen above the 16 or
30-hour thresholds, particularly if calculations are done on an annual
basis.
I am sure that
everyone on this Committee has experience of constituents coming to see
them with a blizzard of correspondence from HMRC about tax credits.
There are numerous award notices that require different bits of
information to be provided, details to be checked, small print to be
read and so on. An unintended consequence of the regulations
couldbe that what is at present a small snowstorm of
correspondence becomes a veritable blizzard for many people in the
categories to which I draw attention today. I hope that the Chief
Secretary can reassure us on that point at
least.
The regulations
will also make mandatory the reporting of changes in average weekly
child care costs. There are concerns for people in that group, not
least in making a judgment within a month about when a
cohabitation relationship starts or ends, given the uncertainty that
they may have about whether the relationship will
continue.
People are
asked to predict how long an overseas visit will last, but there is
often no clear answer to such a question until long after the one-month
period, yet that is the mandatory time for giving notification of any
change. The solution offered in the regulations to start the time
running from the date of the change or from the date when the claimant
first knew about the change, whichever is later, may serve to create
more uncertainty and may, of course, lead to further unfairness in the
system.
A particularly
difficult case for the Committee involves circumstances in which a
child has passed away. Again, the regulations make it mandatory to
report that information to HMRC within a month, and failure to do so
may result in a fine being levied. One can understand that the reason
for that is to deal with potential overpayments, but I would be
interested in the Chief Secretarys response on this point. In
many cases, the last thing on a parents mind if such an
unfortunate event occurs is to get in touch with
HMRC.
The
Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen
Timms): I want to pick up on that point, because the hon.
Gentleman is right to say that it is important. I can assure him that
Revenue and Customs will not pursue a fine if the change is the death
of a
child.
Danny
Alexander: I am grateful to the Chief Secretary for that
reassurance. That is the sort of flexibility that I am looking for in
the application of the regulations to hard cases such as the ones that
we are discussing.
On
the reduction of the time limit for reporting changes of circumstances,
a three-month deadline was originally chosen for the reasons given by
the then Financial Secretary, who I believe is now a high commissioner
to South Africa. He
stated:
We
must recognise that the times when one first qualifies for a working
tax credit or a child tax creditwhen one starts a job, or one
has a new arrival in the householdare often particularly busy
and stressful...There is a balance to be struck, and we must offer
flexibility and recognise the everyday practicalities of real
life.[Official Report, Standing Committee A, 15
January 2002; c. 39.]
That
common-sense approach has generally been supported since.
In that context, concerns have
been expressed about the effect of the proposed reduction when events
happen over a period rather than all at once, such as changes in child
care costs, working hours and household changes, and temporary absences
abroad. If there is a series of changes, when does the time limit
begin? When does the one-month clock start ticking in such
circumstances?
I seek
clarification from the Chief Secretary on one final point. HMRC offers
guidance to claimants, but whatever efforts have been made to try to
ensure that claimants understand that there is a three-month deadline,
I expect that all hon. Members have come across constituents for whom
that is not a well understood fact. Will the Chief Secretary
explain
how he proposes communicating effectively to the population,
particularly those who may simply not have grasped the point so
far?
What new
obligations are being imposed on claimants now that shorter deadlines
exist? I draw attention to the self-employed. They have no adequate
guidance on how to compute their working hours, particularly in the
early days of building a business. Where on the HMRC website and in its
official literature are the rules set out in enough detail and in a
manner that will make it easy for those affected to find the guidance
and to understand it?
It is at least
questionableI wonder what the Chief Secretary
thinkswhether a penalty should be levied until guidance is
available in sufficient detail bothin hard copy and online and
in a helpful and comprehensive form so that citizens, particularly
those in complicated circumstances such as the self-employed, know what
is required of them. Will the Chief Secretary explain what plans his
Department has for issuing such guidance, so that people will know
about the new obligations, and will he ensure that that information is
widely available, particularly to the self-employed? I look forward to
his response.
2.42
pm
Mr.
Timms: I too bid you, Mrs. Dean, a warm welcome
to the Chair of our Committee. I acknowledge the inquiring tenor of the
questions posed by the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and
Strathspey in introducing our debate.
Along with the remarkable new
stability that we have seen in the economy over the last few years,
plus the national minimum wage and the new deal, tax credits have been
an important instrument in ensuring the reduction in child poverty that
we have seen over the past few years. Some 700,000 children were lifted
out of poverty between 1997 and 2005, nearly a quarter of the 31
million in poverty at the start of that periodthat is before
housing costs were taken into accountand it represents good
progress towards our goal of reducing child poverty by half by 2010 and
eradicating itby 2020.
Over the past year, we have
been working to address the administrative problems that we have had
with tax credits, particularly overpayments. Too many people have been
affected by those difficulties in the past, and the statutory
instrument before the Committee is the latest step in addressing those
difficulties. We haveto strike the right balance between
certainty and flexibility. Some have argued that the flexibility
provided by the system as we constructed it should be removed. It is
certainly true that it creates the possibility of overpayments.
However, it also enables us to respond quickly by giving extra help
through tax credits when, for example, a family suffers a drop in
income.
Our view is
that such flexibility is particularly important given todays
modern labour market, in which 3 million people change jobs each year.
Flexibility in the system plays an important part in assuring people
that it is worth taking on a job. We do not want to lose that
flexibility. In 2004-05, something like 700,000 families benefited from
extra help through tax credits when their household income
fell.
Mr.
Francois: I apologise for interrupting the Minister so
early in his comments. Under heading7 on policy background,
the explanatory notes that accompany the instrument state in paragraph
7.4(a) that one of the changes that the regulations require to be
notified to HMRC is when someone is not
entitled
because they
become, or cease to be, a member of a couple, or where they leave the
UK permanently or they are no longer treated as being in the
UK.
There have been many
press reports about people claiming tax credits in the UK. Non-UK
citizens come here from the EU, claim the money from HMRC and pay that
money outside the UK into other EU countries. Does the Chief Secretary
have an estimate of the number of cases of such behaviour in the last
financial
year?