The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mr.
David
Amess
Atkins,
Charlotte
(Staffordshire, Moorlands)
(Lab)
Balls,
Ed
(Economic Secretary to the
Treasury)
Breed,
Mr. Colin
(South-East Cornwall)
(LD)
Brennan,
Kevin
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Cable,
Dr. Vincent
(Twickenham)
(LD)
Carswell,
Mr. Douglas
(Harwich)
(Con)
Clappison,
Mr. James
(Hertsmere)
(Con)
Curry,
Mr. David
(Skipton and Ripon)
(Con)
Evennett,
Mr. David
(Bexleyheath and Crayford)
(Con)
Hamilton,
Mr. David
(Midlothian)
(Lab)
Kemp,
Mr. Fraser
(Houghton and Washington, East)
(Lab)
McCarthy-Fry,
Sarah
(Portsmouth, North)
(Lab/Co-op)
Robinson,
Mr. Geoffrey
(Coventry, North-West)
(Lab)
Simon,
Mr. Siôn
(Birmingham, Erdington)
(Lab)
Villiers,
Mrs. Theresa
(Chipping Barnet)
(Con)
Watson,
Mr. Tom
(West Bromwich, East)
(Lab)
Wright,
Mr. Anthony
(Great Yarmouth)
(Lab)
Hannah
Weston, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
The following
also attended, pursuant to Standing Order No.
118(2):
Newmark,
Mr. Brooks
(Braintree)
(Con)
Second
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Monday 18
December
2006
[Mr.
David Amess in the
Chair]
Governments assessment as set out in the pre-Budget report 2006 for the purposes of section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993
4.30
pm
The
Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ed Balls): I beg to
move,
That the
Committee has considered the Governments assessment as set out
in the pre-Budget report 2006 for the purposes of section 5 of the
European Communities (Amendment) Act
1993.
It
is a great honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr.
Amess, for what I believe is the first time in my case. The subject for
debate is the information that is provided to the European Commission
under section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act
1993the Maastricht Act, as it is better known. As you were
Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury
during the Maastricht negotiations, I know that you will understand the
sensitivities that arise out of such
matters.
Committee
members will be aware that one result of the debate on the Maastricht
negotiations is that the Government submit a report to the Commission
each year that contains information on the UKs economic and
budgetary position and on the Governments main economic policy
measures. By formally sharing information from the pre-Budget report
with our European partners, we can help ensure a proper, accurate and
effective EU system that contributes to enhanced employment and growth.
A copy of the December 2006 convergence programme for the UK has been
placed in the Library today, and one has also been provided to the hon.
Member for Chipping Barnet. By holding todays debate, we fulfil
our commitment under the Maastricht
Act.
The report to the
Commission sets out our economic record and the way in which we are
addressing the challenges that are faced in delivering stability,
rising prosperity, and opportunity and fairness for all. The document
sets out how the UK economy has now expanded for 57 consecutive
quartersthe longest unbroken expansion since quarterly national
accounts began, and the longest ongoing expansion among all member
countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and
Development. The document also sets out that, in the past five years,
the UK has enjoyed the second lowest rate of inflation in the G7 after
Japan and growth rates that are significantly stronger than those in
the euro area.
In
preparing the document, however, the Government have also had to deal
with the challenges that have been faced over the past year, including
those found in the global economyglobal imbalances,
exchange rate instability, the stalling of trade talks, and high and
unstable oil and commodity prices. Against that backdrop, the report
shows that growth is expected to be 2.75 per cent. this year, rising to
2.75 to 3.25 per cent. next year. We expect inflation to reach its 2
per cent. target level by mid-2007 and to remain there in 2008.
Productivity in the last economic cycleto 1997grew at
1.9 per cent., but growth has averaged 2.4 per cent. since
then.
This year
alone, 200,000 more people are in employment, and there are now 2.5
million more jobs in the economy than in 1997, resulting in the highest
ever figure for the number of men and women in work in our country. The
document makes it clear that the strength of the UK economy is the
result of the tough decisions that the Government have taken, along
with the macro-economic framework that we have put in place since
1997.
The
Governments monetary policy framework seeks to ensure low and
stable inflation. The Bank of England Act 1998 gave full operational
independence to the Monetary Policy Committee, which has the discretion
to decide when and how to react to events to meet a clearly defined
inflation target. As I said, the framework has delivered the longest
period of low and stable inflation since the 1950s. It ensures that the
Bank of England can take a forward-looking approach to the setting of
interest rates.
In
recent years, there has been some suggestion that we should reform the
monetary policy framework. It has been suggested, for example, that we
should hold an annual vote in Parliament on the inflation target, and
that we should change the rules and appoint a majority of external
members to the MPC. Having considered those suggestions, we believe
that they would put stability in the economy at risk, and that holding
such an annual vote would put the monetary framework at risk of
influence by short-term political considerations. That would take us
back to the bad days, pre-independence, and we have no intention of
allowing that.
The
report shows that fiscal policy is sound. As the Chancellor of the
Exchequer reported in the pre-Budget report on 6 December, we are
meeting both of our fiscal rules. We have two such rules: the golden
rule
Mrs.
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con): It is a pleasure
to serve under your Chairmanship, Mr. Amess. Is the Economic
Secretary concerned about the fact that the credibility of the golden
rule has been so significantly undermined by the Chancellor having
twice changed the dates of the economic
cycle?
Ed
Balls: I shall set out the position on the fiscal rules
and then answer the hon. Ladys question. As she knows, the
golden rule states that current spending is paid for by current
revenues, rather than by borrowing. The sustainable investment rule
states that debt is held at a prudent and stable level during the
economic cycle. In the pre-Budget report, the Chancellor announced that
we are meeting those rules, with an overall surplus of £8
billion in this economic cycle and, indeed, that we are also on course
to meet the rules in the next cycle.
The hon.
Lady is quite right that the dating of the cycle is very important
indeed. That is why we have asked, for the first time since 1997, the
independent National Audit Office to audit our underlying assumption of
the trend rate of growth. That is the key number in determining the
economic cycle and, with our economic forecasts, the relationship
between the economy and the economic cycle. Clearly, when the
information from the Office for National Statistics changes, the dating
of the cycle will also change. That happens in a clear, open, audited
and objective way, which the NAO endorses through its assumption of
trend growth. Additionally, we have asked it to audit the end date of
the economic cycle.
Since 1997,
we have had two fiscal rules. We have kept to the same fiscal rules
every year, year by year, and for the first time, we have asked the NAO
to play the role of auditing the cycle and the other assumptions. In
the previous period, the fiscal rules changed year by year, according
to the state of the economic cycle. When the economy was strong, the
commitment was to a Budget surplus. When the economy was weaker, the
commitment was to a balanced Budget.
Ed
Balls: I will finish that
point.
When the
economy moved into recession, the commitment was to move back to
balance in the medium term. There is nothing that more undermines
fiscal policy in our country than changing the rules year by year, as
the economy changes. We have kept to the same rules, with an
independent audit. There is more openness, transparency and scrutiny of
fiscal policy in the UK now than ever before in our history. That is
why we still have a strong and credible record on fiscal
policy.
Mrs.
Villiers: Effectively, you are not sticking to the same
rules when you can randomly turn up at the Treasury Committee one day
and change the date of the cycle, which is one of the key underlying
assumptions. The Economic Secretary may be talking about the NAO making
a limited auditing of assumptions now, but when the Chancellor turned
up at the Treasury Committee and made the first change to the
underlying assumptions, no such audit had taken
place.
Ed
Balls: The hon. Lady does not deny that the assumptions of
the rules are audited by the NAO; they were not before 1997.
[Interruption.] We have kept the same fiscal
rules, year by year, since 1997. Our record under those fiscal rules is
that, although we have had a current surplus of £8 billion in
this cycle, there was no such surplus in the previous cycle, between
1986 and 1997; there was a deficit of £240 billion. That deficit
was concealed by the fact that there was no transparency, independent
audit or the clarity that comes from having a fiscal rule against which
to be judged. The hon. Lady can ask those questions precisely because
we have been very clear and public with our rules. We have also been
transparent in the way in which we have operated the
system.
Mr.
Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry, North-West) (Lab): Will the
Economic Secretary confirm whether the Conservative Governments
record on deficits was
so poor that they ran a record deficit of more than £50
billion in 1992, when they won that years general election, and
that they had hardly got it down much below £30 billion when he
was elected in 1997, when Labour took
office?
Ed
Balls: I remind my hon. Friend that, unfortunately, I was
not elected until 2005, and therefore that I served unelected in the
previous period. It is true, however, that the Labour Government was
elected in 1997, and that, as my hon. Friend said, we inherited
borrowing of around £30 billion and a position in which we were
told by officials that, if we did not move immediately, inflation was
set to rise not above 3 per cent., but actually to 4 per
cent.
Mr.
Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con)
rose
Ed
Balls: The hon. Gentleman should hold on a
second.
That was why
it was so important to act immediately, to take the decisions on
interest rates to get the economy back on to a path of stability and
low inflation and to make the Bank of England independent, so that we
could lock in that stability of monetary policy for the medium term.
That decision was opposed by Opposition Members, who would now seek to
change the rules of the game on monetary policy to take us back to the
very instability that we all want to put behind
us.
The
Chairman: Order. Before the Economic Secretary takes an
intervention, I remind the Committee to make remarks entirely relevant
to the matter that we are
discussing.
Mr.
Newmark: I hope that my questions to the Economic
Secretary are relevant. First, how many changes to the golden rule are
acceptable? We have had not one, but two changes and possibly
threeeven in the PBRin defining the golden rule.
Secondly, the Government have rightly insisted on greater transparency
in our accountinghon. Members mentioned debt in the
countrybut is it not best to have transparency with off-balance
sheet as well as on-balance sheet financing, so that we know the true
state of the nations
debt?
Ed
Balls: Those points are relevant, because we are talking
about whether we report to the European Commission on a strong,
credible regime for decisions made in Britain on interest rates and
fiscal policy, or whether we return to the mistakes of the past. That
is why it is right that we analyse the submission that we are putting
forward. The hon. Gentlemans first point is wrong. The
definition of the golden rule has remained unchanged since
1997.
Mr.
Newmark: Why have the goalposts been moved
twice?