The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Baron,
Mr. John
(Billericay)
(Con)
Barrett,
John
(Edinburgh, West)
(LD)
Blizzard,
Mr. Bob
(Waveney)
(Lab)
Chope,
Mr. Christopher
(Christchurch)
(Con)
Clifton-Brown,
Mr. Geoffrey
(Cotswold)
(Con)
Cohen,
Harry
(Leyton and Wanstead)
(Lab)
Dobson,
Frank
(Holborn and St. Pancras)
(Lab)
Featherstone,
Lynne
(Hornsey and Wood Green)
(LD)
Gray,
Mr. James
(North Wiltshire)
(Con)
Keeble,
Ms Sally
(Northampton, North)
(Lab)
McCarthy,
Kerry
(Bristol, East)
(Lab)
Mahmood,
Mr. Khalid
(Birmingham, Perry Barr)
(Lab)
Michael,
Alun
(Cardiff, South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
Miller,
Andrew
(Ellesmere Port and Neston)
(Lab)
Thomas,
Mr. Gareth
(Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for
International
Development)
Todd,
Mr. Mark
(South Derbyshire)
(Lab)
Walker,
Mr. Charles
(Broxbourne)
(Con)
Mark
Oxborough, Committee
Clerk
attended the Committee
Ninth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Wednesday 18
July
2007
[Mr.
Joe Benton
in the
Chair]
Draft International Fund For Agricultural Development (Seventh Replenishment) Order 2007
2.30
pm
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development
(Mr. Gareth Thomas):
I beg to move,
That the Committee has
considered the draft International Fund for Agricultural Development
(Seventh Replenishment) Order
2007.
May
I say at the outset what a pleasure it is to serve under your
chairmanship, Mr. Benton? It is particularly appropriate
given your interest in the subject
matter.
The
International Fund for Agricultural Development is an
international financial institution and a specialised agency of the
United Nations that is dedicated to the eradication of poverty in the
rural areas of developing countries. Three quarters of the
worlds poorest and excluded peoplesome 800 million
women, men and childrenlive in rural areas. IFAD works
exclusively with them, their organisations and those who help them. It
provides developing countries Governments with a mix of
low-interest loans and grants, and works with them to design programmes
that support national priorities and respond to the needs and
priorities identified by poor rural people.
IFADs strategic
framework for 2007 to 2010 sets out how it will contribute to the
millennium development goals, particularly the eradication of extreme
poverty and hunger. Its six objectives focus on providing the rural
poor with better access to land and water, agricultural technologies,
financial services, markets, employment and enterprise development, and
policy processes in-country.
IFAD also
contributes to the goals of the empowerment of women and reduced child
mortality, and makes a contribution to combating diseases and creating
a global partnership for development. For example, a recent independent
evaluation of an IFAD-supported irrigation project in Tanzania shows
that not only has food security been improved, but childrens
school enrolment. Empowering local communities, particularly women,
through training, setting up irrigation, developing savings and credit
groups, building access roads and improving farm production, can also
help children to get into school. Clean water and sufficient food make
them healthy enough to do so.
Six years ago, Kenya Women
Finance Trust was losing $290,000 a year. With IFADs help with
training and financial management and credit, increasing the membership
basin and disbursing money through womens associations, it was
able to turn around loan recovery and to sort out
some of its allocation problems. In the first nine months of 2006,
membership of the
trust in western Kenya alone increased by a third to almost 27,000. The
number of projects in which the trust was involved increased by almost
two thirds and now represents activity worth 525 million Kenyan
shillings. Members savings rose by half to some 254 million
Kenyan shillings. Repayment rates are at more than 95 per cent. Most
loans are for $400 or less, which is enough to start raising chickens
or selling fish, which is a key step to getting out of the extreme
poverty that many trusts clients previously faced.
In Mali, which is one of the
worlds poorest countries, the Government have asked IFAD to
lead on development in the arid northern zone. According to an
independent evaluation made earlier this year, the area has been turned
from a deficit zone to a surplus zone in terms of food crop production.
No one would wish to say that every food crop production problem has
been solved but, thanks to IFADs involvement, significant
progress has been made. Production has increased, markets have
expanded, and more revenue has been generated. In an area prone to
conflict between herders and farmers over land and water, the programme
has made a significant contribution to conflict prevention which,
because Mali borders seven other countries, is important.
Although two thirds of
IFADs resources are allocated to Africa, it works in other
regions, which enables it to share its acquired knowledge between
countries and continents. Other international organisations such as the
World Bank and the African Development Bank also work on agriculture
and rural development, and IFAD works closely with them. Those other
organisations focus mainly on larger programmesfor example,
infrastructurebut IFAD is the only international organisation
to focus exclusively on rural poverty. Its activities are rooted in
local communities, often in the most remote and isolated areas of a
country. Its approach is to develop projects in partnership with the
rural poor that respond to their needs and build up skills for
long-term
sustainability.
Since
its beginning in 1978, IFAD has invested some $9.5 billion in more than
730 programmes that have reached more than 300 million rural poor
people around the world. A further $16 billion have been contributed as
co-financing by other partners. The seventh replenishment that we are
considering has a target of $720 million, which will enable IFAD to
increase its programme work. We have pledged a total of
£27,725,000 million, but we have agreed that 30 per cent. of
thatsome £8,317,500will be contingent on
continued improvements in IFADs
performance.
Mr.
James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Will the Minister give
way?
Mr.
Thomas:
I will give way in a second. Before I do, let me
say that the 30 per cent. contingent element was negotiated in part as
a result of conclusions reached by the independent external evaluation
to which IFAD has been subject.
Mr.
Gray
:
I am sure that there is a simple answer to my
question. The order is laudable, but what is the reason for this
specific sum?
Mr.
Thomas:
It was reached as a result of negotiation. We want
an increase in IFADs funding so that it can increase its
programme work. It has negotiated with all those who contribute to it
and agreed with its donors collectively an increase in its budget of
approximately 10 per cent. Because of the organisations
effectiveness, we are happy to contribute the suggested
sum.
Mr.
Gray:
Will the Minister clarify that? He said that the
figure is the result of negotiation. I presume that he means that we
said one figure, IFAD said another, and we ended up with a figure in
the middle as a compromise. That is perfectly sensible, but implies
that initially we sought to pay less and we were persuaded to pay more
after negotiation. Will the Minister confirm that that is correct? If
it is not, how did we end up with this very odd figure instead of a
round figure, such as £300
million?
Mr.
Thomas:
What takes place is negotiation
between the partners who sit on the executive board of IFAD as to what
its overall budget should be. There is then a conversation about how
the shares should be allocated. If we had reservations about
IFADs effectiveness, we would have sought to contribute less.
We do not have such reservations, although we are never complacent
about effectiveness as an issue, and we want further changes, which I
shall come to. We think President Båge and his senior management
team are doing an extremely good job. I hope that the examples that I
gave of some of the projects that IFAD supported give the hon.
Gentleman and other hon. Members confidence that it is extremely
effective.
One of the
matters that we continue to monitor carefully is IFADs
performance. It will be measured against its own action plan for
improving development effectiveness, and the keys areas of performance
that we will monitor closely are UN reform, improvement in the
performance of all projects in IFADs portfolio, human resource
management, and the funds capacity on knowledge management and
innovation. All the targets that we have asked IFAD to work on are due
to have been met by the end of 2007. Those results will be reported to
the executive board, and a decision will be made by the end of January
2008 about whether to grant the full amount of the incentive
contribution that I have described.
We have taken this approach
because although we believe strongly in the importance of IFADs
mandate, we have wanted further improvements in effectiveness in some
areas of IFADs work, as we have in other multilateral
organisations. I touched on that in answer to the intervention by the
hon. Member for North Wiltshire. We have worked closely with IFAD to
encourage reform. We are pleased that President Båge has
recently renewed his entire senior management team and that one of our
senior staff members is now assistant president for external affairs,
on secondment to the organisation. We are already seeing the impact of
that strong new team in leading the implementation of the different
elements of the action plan, which we are supporting and monitoring
closely.
This
international financial organisation is an effective body. It does an
important job and focuses on a key area that often does not get
attention from other crucial international financial institutions. On
that basis, I commend the draft order to the
Committee.
2.41
pm
Mr.
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold) (Con): I echo the
Ministers sentiment about being delighted to serve under your
chairmanship, Mr. Benton.
It is a pleasure to serve
opposite the Minister in my new capacity, partly dealing with trade
policy, which the Minister shares with the Department for Business,
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, which has replaced the Department of
Trade and Industry. I also work on trade promotion, which relates
partly to DBERR and partly to the Foreign Office.
I am delighted to be in this
Committee in my forayor reforayinto Department for
International Development matters. I used to chair the all-party group
on population, development and reproductive health, so this is not a
new field for me. I am returning to a welcome home, on which the
Opposition have, to a large degree, supported the Government. We are
delighted to be able to continue to do that. One of our few monetary
pledges is that we should move towards the 0.7 per cent. of GDP aid
target. The Government have also pledged to do that, and I welcome the
fact that we will be working in a great deal of
harmony.
The draft
order arises from part 2 of the International Development Act 2002,
section 11(5) of which
states:
No
order shall be made under subsection (4) unless a draft of it has been
laid before and approved by the House of Commons.
I believe that the commencement orders
say that it must be laid for approval by an affirmative resolution of
both Houses of Parliament.
My first few questions are
technical ones. It was set out in the 2002 Act that an affirmative
resolution would be used, but such resolutions are largely held for
more contentious matters. Perhaps my hon. Friend and neighbour the
Member for North Wiltshire has begun to drill down into why the
Minister thinks the draft order is controversial.
Is this the
first time that the funding has been renewed? I
believe that IFAD has been in existence since 1977a long
timeand has 160 member states. It would be interesting to know
from the Minister about not only some of the more recent projects,
which he kindly informed the Committee about, but a little flavour of
how much the organisation has achieved since 1977 and how many of those
160 countries contribute to it.
There must be some disquiet
about some of the past management, otherwise why would President
Båge have had to renew his entire team? I share my hon.
Friends sense that there must be a little more to that than
meets the eye. That must be borne in mind, given that the Government
are making 30 per cent. of the money contingent on the funds
performance, as the Minister said. There must be a reason for that. Why
is the full £27 million not being made available? What has gone
on to make the Government want to make funding contingent in that way?
What has the independent external finance board said about the
funds effectiveness? I cannot help but feel that there must
have been some reservations about it.
Mr.
Gray:
I am following my hon. Friends argument with
great interest; he is making a sound point. I take him back to what the
Minister said a moment ago
about negotiations. Surely negotiation means that one party wants to pay
less than the other wants it to pay, so haggling takes place and they
end up somewhere in the middle. That might be an explanation for these
rather bizarre figures, although on reflection it may be something to
do with the conversion from US dollars. The first instalment was
£18 million, and the others have been very odd figures. I wonder
whether the negotiations have been tough and whether the Government are
trying to pay lessand if so,
why?
Mr.
Clifton-Brown:
The Minister has heard the poignant point
made by my hon. Friend. I hope that in a spirit of helpfulness he will
be able to give the Committee more information.
Having asked how many
of the 160 member countries contribute, I want to
know on what basis it is agreed that each should contribute. Is there a
quota? How is the finance organised?
I was interested to hear about
the four categories upon which Minister said the £8 million
would be contingent. He mentioned UN reform,
performancepresumably IFADshuman resource
management, and knowledge management and resource. Again, that rather
points me in the same direction as my hon. Friend; he, too, has a sense
of unease about previous underperformance and perhaps even
misappropriation of funds. If that has happened, we need to
know.
Mr.
Thomas:
I shall deal later with the series of points that
the hon. Gentleman has identified, but let me deal now with the
question of misappropriation of funds. We do not
believe that there has been any misappropriation by senior management
or anyone else, and we believe that strong systems are in place within
IFAD to prevent money being lost through corruption. More generally,
the key factor is that although IFAD is a good organisation we want it
to improve further. Making some of our funding contingent on
performance is one way of incentivising that senior management team,
good though it now is, to drive the reform process even
harder.
Mr.
Clifton-Brown:
I am grateful to the Minister for that
information. If that is the objective, one wonders why only 30 per
cent. of the funding is contingent and not the whole £27
million. We need to know a little more of the Governments
thinking. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire said, we
want to know what negotiations took place.
The
Ministers helpful intervention came in the
middle of my listing the four categories, so I shall revert to where I
left off. The sections are UN reform, performance, human resource
management, and knowledge management and resource. Are they solely
related to the fund? Seeing UN reform in the list leads me to ask
whether it is related to the Governments wish to see further UN
reform in other areas. Is the money in any way contingent upon UN
reform in other areas, or is it solely to do with UN reform in relation
to the
fund?
Mr.
Thomas:
It is solely in relation to IFADs
contribution to the broader agenda of getting the UN development
systems to work more effectively and more closely together. Many
different parts of the UN
system do excellent work on their own; we want them to work more
effectively together, and we want IFAD to be part of that
process.
All the
indications are that IFAD wants to be part of the process. Indeed, its
president, Lennart Båge, served on a high-level panel set up by
the previous UN Secretary-General, which considered various reforms to
the UN development system. All the signs are positive. It is about
encouraging his organisation to continue to be closely involved in the
reform process.
Mr.
Clifton-Brown:
Again, I thank the Minister for that
helpful intervention. The most important word was
continue, as it implies that the process will develop
further. When I was looking at UN reform, it was thought that there
were far too many funds and programmes, not all of which were as
effective as they ought to be, and that the UN might do less, but do
what it did better. I wonder whether IFAD could do better, and whether
it is spreading itself too thinly. Will the Minister comment on
that?
The
Minister said that two thirds of IFADs funding is devoted to
Africa. Will he tell us in a little more detail which African countries
are involved? He mentioned Mali and Tanzania, but it seems to me that
its remit would be ideally suitable to Zimbabwe, where the people are
not able to feed themselves. Is the fund involved there, and if not,
could it be?
Will the
Minister tell us more about how President Båge prioritises?
There is a lot in the world that needs doing. The Minister has spoken
of 800 million women, children and men who live in rural areas and
depend on agriculture and related activities for their livelihoods, and
who are some of the very poorest in the world. There is a huge unmet
need out there for the fund. Will he therefore say how it prioritises
its activities? Could it, for example, get involved in Afghanistan and
help in the poppy-growing reduction
programme?
Mr.
Gray:
I am just contemplating what my hon. Friend said
about Zimbabwe. I for one would not feel at all happy if what is
effectively British taxpayers money were being piled into the
huge empty gap that is Zimbabwe today. We would need to see very
significant improvements in the governance of Zimbabwe. I am not sure
that I would encourage the use of the fund in that country at
all.
Mr.
Clifton-Brown:
I take the point made by my hon. Friend.
Nevertheless, we must consider the Zimbabwean situation; people are
starving there at the moment, as he knows. How we get help to them is a
subject with which I know the Minister will be deeply involved. As my
hon. Friend says, we do not want to make life any easier for the
Zimbabwean Government; however, we certainly want to make life easier
for the Zimbabwean people. That is a real conundrum which affects how
the NGOs go about their work in that very difficult country.
The Opposition will not oppose
the order in principle. However, we want the Minister to say more about
the origin of the figure of £27 million, about what the fund
actually does, and about whether the debate will be an annual
affair.
2.51
pm
John
Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): I have
only a few points to add. We have already heard today about the scale
of the problem and about the 800 million people living in rural areas
who make up 75 per cent. of the worlds poorest people. The
number of undernourished people in Africa has grown from 169 million in
the early 1990s to 206 million. We have heard about countries where the
fund can be used; I am aware of other countries, such as Malawi, that
are heavily dependent on agriculture and agricultural development and
that lack other natural resources. Just this week we have heard fresh
warnings from Somalia about major crop failures, which highlight the
importance of successful agricultural development.
I have two points for the
Minister. We have heard mention of the effectiveness of the sum of
money that we are discussing£27,725,000. However, it is
vital that there be an audit trail so that we can examine the
effectiveness of aid. Not only would that reassure our taxpayers that
their tax money is spent effectively when it goes abroad, but it would
help us to fulfil our duty to recipients of aid to ensure that aid is
not filtered away to bank accounts or elsewhere, and that the maximum
bang for each buck spent is delivered to people who are among the
worlds most needy. We need to know there is an audit trail to
reassure Members of Parliament and recipient countries that they are
getting value for money.
There are many other ways to
help the poorest of the poor and the needy, but agriculture is often
seen as the poor relation. There is a lot of emphasis
now on trade, aid and a range of other measures in the developing
world. When so many people have no alternative but to develop what are
often very small plots of ground using basic techniques, it is good to
see funds such as IFAD that are well focused on that aspect of life. As
has been mentioned, the fund was established in 1977 and has focused
exclusively on rural poverty reduction since its inception. Unlike
other financial institutions, which have a broad range of objectives,
IFAD has a clear focus and my party is happy to support the approval of
the funding that is the subject of todays
debate.
2.54
pm
Mr.
Thomas:
I shall try and do justice to the questions asked
by the hon. Member for Cotswold. I congratulate him on his new brief,
albeit that it is a return to an agenda with which he is to some extent
familiar.
The hon.
Gentleman asked a series of questions, and I shall deal with them in
order. He asked whether this debate was to be an annual one, and
whether the fact that the order must be approved in this way suggests
deep controversy about IFAD and its effectiveness. I do not think that
he needs to worry: IFAD is an effective organisation. Since I had the
privilege of moving the order for the last replenishment round in 2004,
IFAD has not featured on the list of concerns of the Select Committee
on International Development, or indeed that of the Select Committee on
Public Accounts. I hope that that reassures hon. Members
further.
As we seek
further and faster progress toward achieving the millennium development
goals, it is appropriate that all agencies, both those run by the
Government and DFID and those run by international development
organisations, should ask themselves whether they are doing enough to
improve their effectiveness. As a result, we are asking that question
of all the multilateral organisations with which we engage, and
challenging them to go further and faster in areas where we think they
need to reform their management.
We have had extremely
good discussions with President Båge during his term of office.
His term as president will end in February 2009, and he is clear that
he wants to leave an organisation that has reached the pinnacle of its
possible effectiveness under his leadership. That is why he wants to
establish an action plan to drive further the necessary reforms in his
organisation.
UN
reform is in the mix because we need leadership from many different
organisations in the UN family to get the UN system working more
effectively to help developing countries to make progress on the MDGs.
Given that President Båge served on the high-level panel for
system-wide coherencea ghastly title for an important process
set up by the Secretary-Generalit is entirely appropriate that
he should want to continue to provide further leadership in that area,
and we want to support
him.
Does IFAD do too
much? That was the second of the hon. Gentlemans questions. The
answer was provided in part by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, West.
IFAD has a narrow focus on the needs of the rural poor. No other
international financial institution or UN agency focuses on that to the
same degree. the hon. Member for Cotswold also asked how the
replenishment process is organised. It occurs every three years; 85
countries are contributing to the seventh replenishment and
negotiations took place over the course of a year.
The hon. Gentleman asked
whether the Government were concerned about the senior management team.
Obviously we were, which is why we have worked with President
Båge as he has sought to replace them. The priorities in respect
of which countries are supported through IFAD funding are determined
predominantly by countries level of rural poverty and their
performance in addressing the needs of the rural poor.
The hon. Member for
North Wiltshire raised the issue of Zimbabwe. He will not be surprised
that the Government share IFADs view. So poor has the
Zimbabwean Governments performance been that it is right that
no money should go to them. Bluntly, we simply cannot trust them to
spend it appropriately. Because they have defaulted on IFAD loans in
the past, there is no ongoing IFAD activity in Zimbabwe at the
moment.
If I
understood the hon. Gentlemans point correctly, however, I do
not endorse the notion that the Government should not provide resources
to the people of Zimbabwe. Obviously that should not be done through
these Zimbabwean Government, but we have a responsibility to recognise
the needs of the Zimbabwean people and, through NGOs and UN
organisations, to do what we can to alleviate much of the terrible
suffering of many of the Zimbabwean people, while also working on the
international stage to try to seek an improvement in the governance of
Zimbabwe. That is a wish which I think the whole House
shares.
Mr.
Gray:
That is precisely what I meant. I hope that my
earlier remarks were not
misunderstood.
Mr.
Thomas:
The hon. Gentleman has clarified even further the
point that he made. I accept his intervention in that
spirit.
The
hon. Member for Edinburgh, West asked two questions
about effectiveness and financial systems. He spoke about the need to
protect the organisation and British taxpayers money against
the possible loss of resources through corruption. IFAD has a very
strong anti-corruption policy. It has on occasion pulled out of
projectsfor example, in Kenyabecause of concerns about
corruption. Indeed, IFADs withdrawal from the projects it was
supporting in Kenya led to the creation of an independent external
audit function specifically for its work there. It has now gone back
into Kenya but its work is very closely monitored by that independent
audit function. Part of IFADs role is to work with Governments
of countries where it is active to strengthen financial management
systems more generally. Not only are its resources well managed, but so
are other resources generated in-country or through other
donors.
Lastly, on effectiveness, IFAD
was one of the first organisations to adopt the
independent evaluation process which I described.. We strongly
encourage players in the multilateral system to go down that route.
IFAD has been a model. It has identified issues in the past that need
reform. We have sought through the action plan that we have agreed with
it to make progress on that agenda. I hope that I have answered hon.
Members
points.
Mr.
Clifton-Brown:
The Minister has not answered one of my key
questions. I know that there is vote coming up in the House in a minute
and so we want to finish this sitting, but how does the fund prioritise
its activities given that only 85 out of its 160 members contribute to
it?
Mr.
Thomas:
With respect, I think that I did answer that
point. I said that IFAD looks at the levels of rural poverty and makes
a judgment about the performance of a country in addressing those
needs. On that basis I commend the order to the
Committee.
Question
put and agreed
to.
Committee
rose at three minutes past Three
oclock.