Mr.
Hanson: There are political acts, and I
am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the point with me. It is a
political act to vote for the minimum wage or in support of pension
credits. I hope that those political acts brought about fundamental and
irreversible shifts in the balance of wealth and power and that they
will not be repealed by any future Conservative Government. They have
made a difference to people’s lives. The document before the
Committee presents a political opportunity to consider how we can
progress those matters still
further. Lady
Hermon (North Down) (UUP): The document says on page 14
that homelessness in Northern Ireland has
“increased markedly in recent
years.” Is
that a political act? The Minister will be familiar with the Simon
Community and the good work that it does to address homelessness in
Northern Ireland. Is it a political act of the Northern Ireland Office
that, in the past five years, it has not had a single meeting or
exchange of correspondence with the Simon Community specifically about
dealing with homelessness?
Mr.
Hanson: I recognise the work of the Simon Community, and I
will give a commitment to the hon. Lady if it helps her. If the Simon
Community seeks a meeting with me while I have the powers as the
Minister with responsibility for housing, I will meet that organisation
before 26 March.
Lady
Hermon: I am grateful for that offer to the Simon
Community made through me as the MP for North Down, but will the
Minister just answer the question? Why, given that there has been a
directorial team in place for four years, has there not been a single
meeting with the Simon
Community?
Mr.
Hanson: I can speak only for myself. As the Minister
responsible for housing, I regularly undertake visits and go to
meetings throughout Northern Ireland with a range of providers of
voluntary sector social housing and with the Housing Executive. I have
visited the hon. Lady’s constituency to discuss housing issues
and the constituencies of many other hon. Members present. I am happy
to attend such meetings and I am not aware that I have ever turned down
an invitation from the Simon Community in my 20 months as the Minister
with these responsibilities. If I have, I will look at that
correspondence. I am happy to undertake to have such a
meeting.
Mr.
Peter Robinson (Belfast, East) (DUP): If
the Minister is dealing with the politics of poverty, will he recognise
that the Noble index and other mechanisms used by the Department to
assess the level of poverty, need and deprivation do not work across
the community? The Unionist community is by far the most disadvantaged
by the current use of those mechanisms. The strategy that has been
adopted does not cover their areas as it should because of the close
proximity of poverty and plenty in the Unionist
community.
Mr.
Hanson: I want to tackle poverty wherever it arises, be it
in a nationalist or Unionist community and whether it concerns people
of the Catholic, Protestant or other religion, or of no religion,
because poverty is endemic in denying life opportunities. We are
looking at real social need and have established targets on that. We
have looked at areas of deprivation within communities as well as areas
of relatively high poverty close by and we have a number of
neighbourhood renewal areas across communities. There is a concerted
strategy, but I will happily listen to what hon. Members have to say on
that later.
Mr.
Hanson: Before I move on, I want to make
a few points about progress to date. It is important that people get
the benefits to which they are entitled, but there is currently a great
lack of benefit take-up. Promoting benefit take-up and high standards
of customer service are among the many challenges that we face. The
Social Security Agency is, as we speak, considering how it can
modernise its business. Later today, the chief executive will write to
all party spokespeople and public representatives about the results of
its analysis on benefit take-up and the changes required for the agency
to progress to the next stage of its development. I look forward to
hon. Members being able to respond to that
challenge. Mrs.
Iris Robinson (Strangford) (DUP): Will the Minister accept
from me that the reason why there is such a shortfall in the take-up of
benefits is because of the complicated form filling required? Older
people and those from socially deprived backgrounds are less able to
complete those forms. That is where the anomaly
is.
Mr.
Hanson: I accept that there are some who have great
difficulties filling in forms, especially those who are elderly or
confused, or who have low educational attainment; that is a fact of
life. However, we shall look into the matter in detail. The forms are
simpler than they used to be, and certainly much more user-friendly.
The key thing is to ensure that people receive the benefits that they
are entitled to. We recently piloted some benefit take-up schemes, and
we are now thinking about how to roll them out. The chief executive
will shortly write about the challenges that face the benefits system.
Again, that is something that we need to consider.
I am anxious
to comment on the strategy, rather than the background. In launching
the Government’s strategy for tackling poverty and social
exclusion in Northern Ireland, “Lifetime Opportunities”,
on 13 November, the Secretary of State was honouring a commitment in
the St Andrews agreement to complete work started by the previous
Northern Ireland Executive, to which I give credit for having
identified the need for an anti-poverty strategy. The Government have
listened to the wealth of advice and opinion that was offered during
the consultation and to the clear messages from research, in particular
the fact that some 130,000 households and 100,000 children still live
in poverty in Northern Ireland. I am proud to
repeat that much has been achieved by Government. However, significant
challenges remain, including high levels of economic inactivity among
people of working age, particularly lone parents and people with
disabilities; a culture of benefit dependency—which is difficult
to challenge in some of the harder estates—and low pay, which is
still endemic despite the introduction of the minimum wage and the
successes that that has brought. Workers are still inadequately skilled
and, dare I say it, there are some whose skills will not enable them to
meet the challenges of the next phase of the economy, which is likely
to leave them even further behind.
We need to tackle all those
issues. People who are on disability benefits, the economically
inactive and those with few skills are the groups who are most likely
to face unemployment, and unemployment is the key to most poverty in
Northern Ireland.
Dr.
William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Does the Minister
understand that many working people in Northern Ireland are in the
poverty trap, and that that trap is getting deeper than it has ever
been before? We have higher food and fuel costs than the rest of the
United Kingdom and our water rates are getting higher—up 18 per
cent. in one year—yet our wages are lower than they are in any
other part of the United Kingdom. It is not only benefit recipients who
are in poverty. Many people who are working, and working hard, are
going deeper and deeper into poverty.
Mr.
Hanson: I accept that, and I understand the hon.
Gentleman’s commitment to the issue. We need to raise the wages
in Northern Ireland. We are doing that, in part, through the minimum
wage and working family tax credits, but we need to improve the
productivity and economic base of Northern Ireland. We need to meet the
challenges of the next set of employment issues, not to fight the
battles of the past. We need to ensure that we are highly skilled. The
Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my hon. Friend the
Member for Liverpool, Garston (Maria Eagle) is working hard to ensure
that we increase college throughput and invest in primary and nursery
education to ensure that young people start to acquire skills early in
life. The challenge
in Northern Ireland is to create a competitive economy that encourages
and involves all people in the community. We know that children from
disadvantaged backgrounds are still underperforming educationally; poor
housing conditions persist, notably in the private rented sector; and
fuel poverty in Northern Ireland is still significantly higher than it
is in the rest of the UK, despite our efforts. Furthermore, health
inequalities between the poor and the better-off remain significant.
There are more poor people and they are further away from the richer
sectors of the community than they are anywhere else in the United
Kingdom. Poverty and multiple deprivation continue to be concentrated in
areas that have been persistently deprived for decades, both urban and
rural, and there is a range of issues that we need to examine. Poverty
can affect young and old alike. We must, therefore, break the cycle
that brings people into poverty in the first place. The “Lifetime
Opportunities” strategy aims to tackle some of the basic social
inequalities in Northern Ireland; to put in place broad policies and
challenging targets aimed at eradicating poverty and social exclusion
in Northern Ireland by 2020. It covers a number of
categories. First, it
is important that we give children the best possible start in life. Our
goal in early years is to do that by ensuring that every child has a
chance to develop to their full potential in infancy regardless of
social background. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary and my right hon.
Friend the Secretary of State are committed to ensuring that we improve
the quality of life in early years education for young people in
Northern Ireland. To
achieve that, “Lifetime Opportunities” says that we will
set a number of key targets. We aim to end child poverty by 2020, based
on the estimate that more than 130,000 children in Northern Ireland
have been in relative poverty. That means that we need to focus on
lifting 65,000 children out of poverty by 2010 and on eradicating
poverty completely by 2020. That target means the development of a
broad and balanced curriculum from pre-school to the age of six. Such a
curriculum should provide progression.
For children
and young people, we need to take a number of key steps to ensure that,
during their school life, we put the investment in and make it work in
a proper and effective way. We aim to ensure that we improve the
provision of child care and that we improve educational attainment,
particularly for those from disadvantaged backgrounds, for looked-after
children and for those in both the primary and post-primary sector. We
need to examine how we can support that progress, not just through
investment. We must also consider how we manage and develop those
resources. The Government’s commitment is in place, as are the
targets. We believe that we can meet them in due course.
Mark
Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I note the Minister’s
emphasis on the child poverty targets that the document sets out. Does
he accept that there is concern at the lack of both interim targets and
a meaningful timetable underpinning the headline target for 2020? Given
the Government’s emphasis on the importance of children’s
centres in the comments made by Ministers about this strategy, is it
correct that there will be four children’s centres in the next
two years? How does that compare with the situation in England? If we
are to match the English position, we would need70
children’s centres by
2012?
Mr.
Hanson: In consultation with my hon. Friend the
Under-Secretary, I can confirm that four children’s centres are
likely to be put forward in the next two years. I will check the figure
and, if need be, get back to my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle in due
course.
The key is that we are setting
high targets on the eradication of poverty for 2010 and 2020. Within
that, Departments such as my own Department for Social Development and
my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary’s Department for Employment
and Learning are examining what they can do to
contribute. In
the document, and at its launch, I have indicated to my hon. Friend the
Member for Foyle and to other hon. Members that the Government have
established a monitoring group, which I will chair. It will comprise a
number of stakeholders, and it will consider how we develop policies to
meet those targets. I anticipate that we will meet three or four times
a year to examine the quarterly progress on our targets. I hope that
the Assembly will take that forward in due course, as it is a matter
for it to address. After Christmas, I will be calling the initial
meeting of the monitoring group to examine how we can commence progress
towards the targets.
Sammy
Wilson: The Minister has rightly highlighted the need to
hit targets quickly. Does he accept Savethe Children’s
argument that two seasonal grants of £100 for children in
poverty would immediately lift 400,000 children out of poverty in the
United Kingdom? In other words, such grants would achieve a tenth of
the target that he is talking about almost immediately. What plans do
the Government have to consider such a
policy?
Mr.
Hanson: I am always happy to examine a suggestion, and I
will certainly look at the points that the hon. Gentleman has raised on
that policy. We have set out our view of how we can achieve those
targets and reductions. The Government have set high targets and have
put in place the mechanisms in terms of investing in young people, as I
have mentioned, to lift them out of poverty. We can and should do many
things, and I shall examine his proposal. We could discuss it at
another time and in another place.
Lady
Hermon: Will the Minister elaborate on the composition of
the Minister-led forum and whether there will be representatives from
children’s groups? Who will be speaking for the homeless and
those who are suffering poverty? Is it going to be a forum for the
great and the good or will it have representatives from those who are
greatly in need such as the
elderly?
Mr.
Hanson: I am in the process of
finalising the ministerial terms of reference, but, for the benefit of
the Committee, I hope that the forum will promote the aims and
objectives of the strategy. I also hope that the forum will monitor and
review the success of the strategy, take a facilitative approach by
talking to the voluntary sector and other agencies involved in tackling
poverty, monitor departmental targets, encourage the Department and
look at best practice across Northern Ireland. The forum will meet with
myself as the chair initially but I hope, in due course, with the
Assembly on a three yearly basis. There may also be sub-groups looking
at particular items that could be geographical or sectoral in terms of
policies. I will
decide the full membership shortly, but itwill certainly
include Ministers and officials from Departments, key statutory
agencies, representatives from the voluntary sector and, if I can
arrange it in an
appropriate way, individuals who have an experience of poverty in their
daily lives and who would like to contribute to the discussion. I hope
to announce the membership and full details after Christmas, because if
I announce that now it will be lost in the festivities. We will be
holding the first meeting and taking it forward from
then. As well as the
issue of children and young people, which we have made a considerable
effort to deal with, working-age adults need to have the support of the
Government to help get out of poverty. To ensure that we provide that
support, targets have been put in place by my hon. Friend the
Under-Secretary of State to encourage full participation in the
economic, social and cultural life of Northern
Ireland. By 2015, we
want to ensure that the work force are literate, numerate, and have
good information and communication skills—particularly in
relation to ICT. We need to improve employment and encourage other
social participation, including cultural and sporting activities. We
particularly need to focus on rural areas to ensure that those
communities have equitable access to public services and
programmes. In the
document, we have also set targets for older citizens to ensure that
they are not just valued and respected, which I hope is self-evident,
but remain independent in the community for as long as possible,
participate as active citizens and are able to support a good quality
of life. The changes that we are making to increase pension provision
will go some way to help with that, but we must also look at a whole
range of measures in terms of community support and voluntary sector
activity. I know that all Ministers in the team are currently looking
at how we can help to contribute to the targets in the
document.
Hon. Members
will know that fine words are fine words and nothing will happen unless
we commit resources to the strategy. Earlier this year, the Government,
inour direct rule capacity, committed the Northern Ireland
Assembly to two important funds that will help achieve our objectives.
The first is the children and young persons fund, which is allocated an
additional£103 million between now and 2008 and will
aim to reduce underachievement and improve life chances for children
and young people. Secondly, the skills and science fund has established
more than £35 million that over the next two years will be
invested in skills—particularly for those who are de-skilled or
unskilled at the
moment. Mr.
David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): My hon. Friend will be
aware that last week the Leitch report was published on skills and
helping people in work without skills to face the challenge of the next
two decades so that by 2020 we are able to compete globally. Will the
lessons in the Leitch report be adopted in this part of the
UK?
| 
