The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mr.
Martin
Caton
Ainger,
Nick
(Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for
Wales)Brennan,
Kevin
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Bryant,
Chris
(Rhondda)
(Lab)
Clwyd,
Ann
(Cynon Valley)
(Lab)
Crabb,
Mr. Stephen
(Preseli Pembrokeshire)
(Con)
David,
Mr. Wayne
(Caerphilly)
(Lab)
Davies,
Mr. Dai
(Blaenau Gwent)
(Ind)
Davies,
David T.C.
(Monmouth)
(Con)
Flynn,
Paul
(Newport, West)
(Lab)
Francis,
Dr. Hywel
(Aberavon)
(Lab)
Gillan,
Mrs. Cheryl
(Chesham and Amersham)
(Con)
Griffith,
Nia
(Llanelli)
(Lab)
Hain,
Mr. Peter
(Secretary of State for Wales)Hanson,
Mr. David
(Minister of State, Northern Ireland
Office)Havard,
Mr. Dai
(Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
(Lab)
Howells,
Dr. Kim
(Minister for the Middle
East)
Irranca-Davies,
Huw
(Ogmore)
(Lab)
James,
Mrs. Siân C.
(Swansea, East)
(Lab)
Jones,
Mr. David
(Clwyd, West)
(Con)
Llwyd,
Mr. Elfyn
(Meirionnydd Nant Conwy)
(PC)
Lucas,
Ian
(Wrexham)
(Lab)
Michael,
Alun
(Cardiff, South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
Moon,
Mrs. Madeleine
(Bridgend)
(Lab)
Morden,
Jessica
(Newport, East)
(Lab)
Morgan,
Julie
(Cardiff, North)
(Lab)
Murphy,
Mr. Paul
(Torfaen)(Lab)
Öpik,
Lembit
(Montgomeryshire)
(LD)
Owen,
Albert
(Ynys Môn)
(Lab)
Price,
Adam
(Carmarthen, East and Dinefwr)
(PC)
Ruane,
Chris
(Vale of Clwyd)
(Lab)
Smith,
John
(Vale of Glamorgan)
(Lab)
Tami,
Mark
(Alyn and Deeside)
(Lab)
Touhig,
Mr. Don
(Islwyn)
(Lab/Co-op)
Watkinson,
Angela
(Upminster)
(Con)
Williams,
Mr. Alan
(Swansea, West)
(Lab)
Williams,
Mrs. Betty
(Conwy)
(Lab)
Williams,
Hywel
(Caernarfon)
(PC)
Williams,
Mark
(Ceredigion)
(LD)
Williams,
Mr. Roger
(Brecon and Radnorshire)
(LD)
Willott,
Jenny
(Cardiff, Central)
(LD)
Alan
Sandall, Chris Shaw, Committee
Clerks
attended the Committee
Welsh
Grand
Committee
Wednesday 13
December
2006
(Morning)
[Mr.
Martin Caton in the
Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
The
Secretary of State was
asked
9
am
Mental Health
Bill
1.
Mark
Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): What assessment
he has made of the effect of the Mental Health Bill on rural
communities in Wales; and if he will make a statement.
[108131]
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Nick
Ainger): The Mental Health Bill 2006 will amend the Mental
Health Act 1983 and the Mental Capacity Act 2005. The 1983 Act operates
across both rural and urban communities without significant disparity,
and it is not anticipated that the amendments proposed will alter that
position.
Mark
Williams: I thank the Under-Secretary for that response.
He will be aware that the Joint Committee on the draft Mental Health
Bill
stated:
Mental
health services in Wales are significantly less developed than those in
England. The fact that Wales is a sparsely populated and bilingual
country brings further challenges to the delivery of mental health
services.
With that in
mind, will he clarify whether the Bill was rural proofed in any way?
Mind, the Mental Health Alliance and other voluntary sector
organisations are concerned that the Bill as it stands is unworkable in
rural Wales.
Nick
Ainger: I do not accept that last comment. The Welsh
Assembly Government have established an implementation project for the
Bill and are working with stakeholders throughout the community to
ensure co-ordination between the voluntary and the statutory sectors.
The project includes pilot sites that will take account of rural and
urban impacts, differences such as the Welsh language, diversity and
cross-border working., so I do not accept that the Bill will have the
impact to which the hon. Gentleman referred. We should remember that
more than 50 people are killed every year by mentally ill people. One
in 20 homicides are committed by people with schizophrenia. Many of
those deaths are preventable, and that is what the Bill is trying to
achieve.
Hywel
Williams (Caernarfon) (PC): Here we have the
Under-Secretary, as is usual with the Government, chasing headlines.
The
Daily Mail will be very happy to see that tomorrow morning.
Why not rename the Bill the Mad Axeman Bill? This is
about chasing headlines by quoting the numbers of people
killed.
Will the Under-Secretary concede
that running a day centre in a rural area is more of a proposition than
running one in the middle of London? What extra resources are the
Government going to make available to facilitate the implementation of
the measures in the Bill in rural Wales?
Nick
Ainger: It is not chasing headlines to tell the truth
about what has been happening and what is still happening in our
communities. It causes genuine outrage, especially for the innocent
victims of such crimes, when it is found that patients who commit
crimes have not been receiving the treatment or were not taking the
medication that they should have been. That is what the Bill intends to
tackle. I thought that there would be cross-party consensus about that,
rather than people saying that it is headline-grabbing
legislation.
Patients
and their families in rural communities will benefit from the
introduction of supervised community treatment, which will allow
suitable patients to receive services closer to home. I am sure that
the hon. Gentleman will at least welcome that.
Clearly, the issue of resources
is a matter for the Assembly. In past years, mental health resources
have kept pace with other expenditure in the health service. It has not
been a Cinderella service: more investment has been going in and I am
sure that that will continue.
Departmental
Expenditure
2.
Mr.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD):
What assessment he has made of the effects of changes in
expenditure by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
on Wales.
[108132]
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Nick
Ainger): Within its budget review, DEFRA is reviewing
allocation within its own funding streams. However, its overall budget
remains
unchanged.
Mr.
Williams: I thank the Minister for his reply, but I find
it puzzling. Already, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs has announced £200 million of cuts. DEFRA is a serial
offender as far as budget mismanagement is concerned. It has underspent
in recent years and now has a £200 million hole in its budget
caused in part by its mismanagement, via the Rural Payments Agency, of
the single farm
payment.
I am
particularly concerned with what will happen to the canal system in
Wales, and particularly in mid-Wales, which has proved to be a huge
asset to the tourism industry. Now it will be allowed to subside again.
It will no longer carry the same attraction, and businesses will suffer
as a
result.
Nick
Ainger: Clearly, the budget for DEFRA is not directly a
matter for me, but it is important to remember that the overall budget
remains the same. The Barnett consequences for the Welsh Assembly
Government are therefore not affected. The changes being made are to the
internal architecture of the DEFRA
budget.
The hon.
Gentleman mentioned British Waterways. Since this Government have been
in power, British Waterways has received substantial investment. The
Government have invested £524 million in it since 2000, as a
result of which it has been able to participate in massive
regeneration, for example in Birmingham, totalling £10 billion.
It has also upgraded and brought into use more than 200 miles of
derelict canals. It is acknowledged that canals are a major tourism
asset, in which the Government have invested and will continue to
invest irrespective of the short-term problems of the DEFRA budget for
this year. There appear to be no problems for next yearit is
projected that the budget will increase to more than £3.6
billion. That is a substantial sum, and investment will continue to be
made in British
Waterways.
Mr.
Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) (PC): Does the
Minister agree that the recent reversal
of the cuts in
payments to the tir mynydd and tir gofal environmental schemes in
Cardiff are most welcome, that the schemes are vital to the economy of
rural Wales, and that any further cuts would not be
acceptable?
Nick
Ainger: The hon. Gentleman asks me to welcome further
investment in rural and upland Wales, which of course I do. As he
knows, the Assembly budget is being debated and voted on this
afternoon, and I am sure that tir mynydd will feature in that debate.
The Government have ensured that substantial sums are going to rural
and upland Wales, and the Assembly will continue to do that. The hon.
Gentleman and his colleagues constantly talk down what has been
happening in rural Wales. If he looks at the facts on employment and
prosperity, he will see that rural Wales is doing okay. He should be
careful not to talk it
down.
Welsh
Economy
3.
Mark
Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): What recent
assessment he has made of the performance of the Welsh economy; and if
he will make a statement.
[108133]
5.
Ann
Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): If he will make
a statement on the recent performance of the Welsh economy.
[108135]
6.
Dr.
Hywel Francis (Aberavon) (Lab): What recent
assessment he has made of the performance of the Welsh economy; and if
he will make a statement.
[108137]
The
Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain):
The Welsh economy is strong, and has shown considerable improvement in
recent years. Employment is now consistently at historically high
levels.
Mark
Tami: I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. He
will be aware of the announcement earlier this week of a £34
million research programme at Airbus in Broughton, which will develop
and enhance
the UKs position as a world leader in wing design. Does he agree
that such an investment is a perfect example of how a Labour Government
here in Westminster can work with a Labour Assembly in Wales to help to
secure jobs in Wales and invest in the future of
Wales?
Mr.
Hain: Yes, I agree about that investment, which included a
contribution from the Welsh Assembly Government, in Airbus, which is
the jewel in the crown of the regional economy not just of north-east
Wales but the area the other side of the border. It is important that
Airbus goes from strength to strength, and we as a Government will
continue to support it in exactly the way that my hon. Friend
describesas a partnership between the Labour Welsh Assembly
Government and the Labour Government in
Westminster.
Ann
Clwyd: As my right hon. Friend knows, Tower colliery in my
constituency has made a significant contribution to the economy of the
Cynon valley and Wales, despite the best efforts of the Conservative
party to shut it down. It is thanks to a Labour Government and a
co-operative work force that the colliery has been such a success.
However, the coal at Tower is coming to a end and much hope is being
pinned on developments at Margam. Will my right hon. Friend assure us
that there will be opportunities for men from Tower colliery and
elsewhere in south Wales when the Margam development eventually takes
place?