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The House will, I hope, understand if I single out Robin Cook, however. Whatever our disagreements over Iraq, he was an extraordinary talent, a brilliant debater, a fearless and determined advocate of
progressive causes and perhaps the greatest parliamentarian of his generation. He is still sorely missed.
I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth and my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch, East for proposing and seconding the Queen’s Speech. I think the Leader of the Opposition is right: there are probably few people to whom I owe more than my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth, having given him one hospital pass after another in the course of his very distinguished career. Indeed, given some of the tasks that he has been asked to perform on my behalf, if when the call came through from No. 10 he had refused to take it, it would have been understandable.
First, my right hon. Friend did a difficult job in very difficult circumstances in respect of Wales. I pay tribute, too, to the tremendous skill, patience and, at times, personal courage with which he tried to find a way through the various difficulties in respect of the hunting ban, not least trying to persuade the Countryside Alliance that it would be not so bad. In addition, he did something that is really worth remembering—he mentioned it in his speech. I remember very well the occasion when he took me down to Cardiff bay and showed me the possibilities there. It was thanks to his vision and due to his work that Cardiff bay was developed in that way. The development has brought in hundreds of millions of pounds of investment and thousands of jobs, and he deserves tremendous credit for it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch, East is, by comparison with my right hon. Friend, a relative newcomer to the House, but there is nothing recent about her record of fighting for Scotland and for devolution, which she has done throughout her political life. It was fitting that she made her maiden speech in the House during the debate on the Bill on referendums for a Scottish Parliament and a National Assembly for Wales, but as she rightly said, she has been equally determined about the representation of women in politics. I am sorry that she had to go through the indignity of being designated one of the Blair babes, but the other day I had a look at the photograph of us all in 1997 and if it is any consolation to her she has aged considerably better than me.
The theme of the Queen’s Speech is taking the long-term decisions necessary to give us security and opportunity in a rapidly changing world. Such pace of change is transforming the nature of the challenges we face—challenges for our economy through globalisation, for our environment through climate change, in respect of our security through terrorism and mass migration, and of our demography through an ageing population, which in a few years will have more people over the age of 64 than under the age of 16 for the first time in the country’s history. This is also of course against the background of our continuing involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Let me say on both those issues that the situation is obviously very difficult. There are immense challenges in both countries, but I believe that it is important that we hold firm, that we show strength, that we stand up to the forces both in Afghanistan and Iraq that are trying to prevent those countries from getting the democracy their people so obviously want.
In respect of Iraq, it is important that we make sure there is a broad-based and non-sectarian Government and, as I explained the other night at the Lord Mayor’s banquet, it is also important that we fill the gaps that there still are in the equipping, training and capability of the Iraqi armed forces. At present in Basra, for all the difficulties, an operation is going on that the British armed forces are supporting—the bomb the other day was designed to stop that operation working. The operation is being led by the Iraqi forces and they are doing it well, and it is of vital importance that our forces remain in support so that the proper authorities in Basra are in full control of the city.
Whether in Iraq or Afghanistan, there are exactly the same issues in both countries: on one side, they are countries where after years of failed and brutally oppressive Governments they are trying to put a democracy on its feet; and on the other side, there are those who by terrorism are trying to destroy that possibility. As I have said on many occasions, our task is to stand firm with the democrats against the terrorists.
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend accept that the reason opinion is moving away from our continued position in Iraq is that there seems to be no progress on security whatever? There is a feeling that next year, the year after or in many years to come, the position will remain the same as it is now. Is not there a case for an urgent reassessment of our position in that country, given the number of people who are being slaughtered daily and given that the occupation in no way prevents either that or the killing of our own armed forces personnel?
The Prime Minister: I think that the best answer to that was given the other day by the Iraqi Prime Minister, who said that the Iraqi capability was building the entire time. For example, people will remember that a couple of weeks ago, in Alamara, the police and the armed forces of Iraq were at first overrun by Shi’a extremists, but within the next 48 hours the Iraqi forces—admittedly with the British in reserve support—retook the city. Actually, throughout the south of the country, we can see how, progressively, we are able to withdraw from our forward positions as the Iraqi capability takes on greater significance and greater capacity.
I have to say to my hon. Friend that I think at the moment it would be very damaging—this is why it is so important and so helpful for the House to send out as united a position as possible. The single most important thing is not to send any signal to the enemy that we are fighting that our will or determination will be undermined by the difficulties that we face.
Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) (SNP) rose—
The Prime Minister: And on that point...
Mr. Salmond: On that point, in response to the Prime Minister's video contribution to the Baker commission reassessing American strategy in Iraq, the White House said that the Prime Minister’s strategy was not new and was similar to President Bush’s policy. Is it not new, is it similar to President Bush’s policy, and is there any exit strategy at all?
The Prime Minister: The strategy is to go when our job is done. That job is important because if we end up in a situation where we allow those people—the same elements that are fuelling extremism right around the region—to have victory, through terrorism, in Iraq or Afghanistan it is not just a tragedy for those two countries but a tragedy for the security of the world, including this country. September 11 came out of Afghanistan, exactly the same elements that are in Iraq today fuelling the terrorism— [Interruption.] I have to educate the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond). Al-Qaeda is in Iraq, carrying out suicide missions and I believe that our task is to stand up to those terrorists—not, as he would, give in to them. I also, incidentally, fully agree with what the right hon. Member for Witney said about the wider middle east, and of course it is important that we take that seriously.
Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Before the Prime Minister moves on from terrorism, if the head of the security forces is right that there are so many people in this country that represent a potential threat, why is evidence not collected and why are they not brought to trial?
The Prime Minister: Of course we collect evidence and we do bring them to trial. But for the very reason that we introduced stronger measures on terrorism—at a time when, if I remember, I was accused of scaremongering when I said that this was a severe problem in the country—we have to consider measures again now, precisely because of that threat. I hope that we can put together measures that will be based on the advice of the police and the security services, and that if we do bring forward those measures, the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues will support them this time.
Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con) rose—
The Prime Minister: I will take one more intervention and then I will have to make a bit of progress.
Mr. Baron: I thank the Prime Minister for his generosity. I think most of us would accept, with regard to policy on Iraq, that it would be wrong to cut and run and that that would only compound the original error, but does he not accept that it is not a sign of weakness or division for this House properly to debate the future of Iraq at a time when we are getting different messages from different policy makers, whether it is splitting the country up into three by the Foreign Secretary, enforcing a national compact by the President, or involving Iran and Syria? Will the Prime Minister now grant this House a full debate about the future of Iraq?
The Prime Minister:
First, let me make it clear—we do not want there to be any danger of people misunderstanding the Government’s policy—Government policy is not to partition Iraq into three; that would be quite disastrous and the Foreign Secretary certainly did not say that. Secondly, let me just tell the hon. Gentleman that although he may regard removing Saddam Hussein as an error, I do not.
In relation to climate change, the Stern review removed any lingering doubts about the threat that we face. It also added a new dimension: the costs of not intervening now vastly outweigh the costs of action. But we know that the only solution is, ultimately, through international action. That is why the G8 plus five initiative begun at Gleneagles is so pivotal in getting a strong and effective post-2012, post-Kyoto agreement soon. It is why the European trading system and co-operation in the European Union is also essential. The groundbreaking agreement that the United Kingdom has recently pioneered with the state of California shows that around the world—particularly, indeed, in the United States—the mood is shifting towards more radical action. It is right that we reflect that shift here.
We are one of the few countries in the world to meet—in fact, to double—our Kyoto targets, and our leadership position on the issue is clear. We must retain it, but I have to say to the right hon. Member for Witney that we need to retain it while acting sensibly. After all, the UK is responsible for only 2 per cent. of total global emissions. If we shut down the whole of the UK’s emissions—shut off all our electricity tomorrow—the growth in just China’s emissions would eliminate the effect in less then two years. Without an international agreement, we will never make proper progress on this issue.
The Bill that we propose will put in legislation a long-term UK target for emissions and it will establish, as we have said, an independent body, the carbon Committee, to work with the Government, and it will take further powers to implement the energy review. It will also include interim targets, but not annual targets. Let me explain to the right hon. Gentleman why we are against the prospect of annual targets, but that is not the only reason it is important. It is important because climate change is not the only issue shaping energy policy. We also need energy security, and for Britain in future that will be essential.
In 15 years we will move from a position of being about 80 or 90 per cent. self-supportive and not reliant on imports on account of our own self-sufficiency in oil and gas, to one in which we are importing 80 or 90 per cent. In those circumstances, and when we also lose about 15 per cent. of our electricity capability through the phasing out of nuclear power stations, I must tell the House that, in common with countries around the world, we need to put nuclear power back on the agenda and at least replace the nuclear energy that we will lose. Without it, we will not be able to meet either our objectives on climate change or our objectives on energy security.
These are difficult and controversial decisions, but they are absolutely necessary. I have looked carefully at what the right hon. Member for Witney and his team have been suggesting on this issue. First, they suggested that we needed 3 per cent. annual targets. The shadow energy Minister said:
“If the climate change Bill is to have teeth and be workable, it must be measurable. Unless we say that we want to achieve a 3 per cent. reduction in emissions year on year, the outcome will not be measurable.”—[ Official Report, 30 October 2006; Vol. 451, c. 76.]
Then the right hon. Member for Witney walked away from that and his shadow environment spokesman is
apparently saying that what he actually wants is a “rolling programme of targets”, which
“would be adjusted mathematically according to the progress or otherwise we make”.
Let me explain it to the right hon. Gentleman. If we end up with an annual target—let us say of 3 per cent.—we could have a colder than usual winter, which would mean that emissions would go up. We would then be in a position where we simply could not meet the target, yet the right hon. Gentleman is suggesting that the target should have statutory authority so that the Government are obliged to carry it out. Let us suppose that the fuel price fell and that we had an increase in emissions as a result. Is the right hon. Gentleman really suggesting that we put back on the fuel duty escalator and raise the fuel duty? I doubt it.
Let me go through the various positions that the right hon. Member for Witney has adopted on nuclear power. His industry spokesman said that from about “the age of 12”, he had an “instinctive hostility” to “nuclear power”. His shadow Chancellor said that he would be
“happy to see nuclear power”.
The right hon. Gentleman himself said:
“I’m neither dogmatically in favour of nuclear power, nor dogmatically against”.
[Interruption.] What is my position? I am in favour of it. Is the right hon. Gentleman in favour of it? The right hon. Member for Witney asks me what my position is and I have said that I am in favour of it. What, then, is the right hon. Gentleman’s position? [Interruption.] It actually gets better. Let me read his position, which he gave just the other day in an interview in Green Futures. He said:
“I want to give every opportunity for green sources of energy to come through. If they do, well and good, if they don’t, and we have to keep the lights on, then nuclear might come into the picture.”
So what is he going to do? He is the Prime Minister and the Cabinet Secretary comes in and says, “I am afraid the renewables haven’t generated as much as we want. I am afraid we won’t be able to keep the lights on.” So what is the right hon. Gentleman going to say—“Rustle me up a nuclear power station”?
Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Will the Prime Minister give way?
The Prime Minister: Wait; I have one more.
In case we have not had enough changes of policy, another of the Leader of the Opposition’s shadow Ministers—this is the latest, hot off the press on their so-called binding targets that are going to be rigorous—said this morning that
“it might well be that you don’t necessarily meet an annual target”.
So we have four different policy positions and the right hon. Gentleman sitting on the fence.
Tony Baldry:
I am very grateful to the Prime Minister for giving way. When John Wakeham and I privatised the electricity industry, the original intention had been to privatise the nuclear power industry, but we could not find anyone in the City of London who was prepared to meet the contingent liabilities of decommissioning nuclear power stations. If the Prime
Minister is in favour of nuclear power, is he saying to the House that the Treasury will always meet the costs of decommissioning nuclear power stations? The City has made it very clear that the private sector will never do that.
The Prime Minister: The decommissioning costs have to be met in any event. [ Interruption. ] We have nuclear power stations now, so we will have nuclear waste that we have to decommission. The point is that when, over the next few years, our nuclear power stations are closed, are we at least going to replace them? I say yes. What does the Leader of the Opposition say? We do not know.
Likewise, the other important long-term challenge is on pensions reform. The Turner report provides us with a good framework on pensions reform and we should implement it. In addition, by removing more people off benefit and into work, we are able to provide better welfare measures for our citizens.
In addition to those measures of reform—I will come to law and order in a moment—there are, for example, the measures on bus travel. There will be free, off-peak local bus travel for all pensioners and disabled people. There will also be proposals to speed up and simplify the planning process, measures to facilitate greater flexibility and decision making in local government, measures on redress for consumers and, of course, measures on Northern Ireland. On Northern Ireland, I hope very much that we will be able to make the progress necessary to see the institutions up and running again.
I would like to focus for a moment on those measures that relate to crime, migration and security. Again, the reason for further action is clear: the nature of crime is changing—antisocial behaviour, organised crime and terrorism. The traditional view of liberty and security, in our judgment, has to change. The right hon. Gentleman said in his speech—indeed, this is commonly said by those on the Opposition Front Bench—that laws are not the answer. Laws are not the whole answer, but I am afraid that they are part of the answer. The fact is that without antisocial behaviour legislation, we would never have been able to tackle the blight of antisocial behaviour in our constituencies. [Hon. Members: “You haven’t.”] Go a few miles from here to King’s Cross and see the changes that have been made or visit the inner-city suburb in east Manchester that I saw the other day. We can go anywhere in the country where these powers are being used, where they are closing down the houses of crack dealers, putting antisocial behaviour orders on people and making sure that the new powers that the police have are used properly. If the Conservatives keep setting their face against antisocial behaviour legislation, they are completely out of touch with the needs of people in this country.
In addition, there is the shifting of the emphasis from the offence to the offender. Again, through the additional legislation, we are able to take further the measures in relation to that, including the measures specifically on violent crime. There will be new ways of managing offenders through the National Offender Management Service, changes in sentencing and changes in the powers that we need to deal with organised crime.
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