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30 Jan 2007 : Column 14WHcontinued
Watford is obviously a popular place to live but their targets ignore the demands more houses and more people will place on our already over-stretched infrastructure. I firmly believe that this latest government announcement is bad news for Watford.
The point that the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk) made about transport is relevant, too. So much of the road and rail system is overcrowded, and that leads to frustration and to environmental damage to the area.
I ought to declare an interest in the matter. My son has recently purchased a house. I am not sure whether it is located in the constituency of St. Albans or that of Hitchin and Harpenden, but I am sure that he will be ably represented by their Members. It was a struggle for him to get on the housing ladder in the area, but he was not an incomer. He migrated to the area but married a local girl, so perhaps he can be excused for increasing the demand on housing stock in the area.
The Secretary of State proposes regional transport nodes, to which reference has already been made. Nodes would be sensible in areas such as Watford, Stevenage and St. Albans, but Hatford and Hemel Hempstead are small stations, and there is a lack of understanding about the existing infrastructure in those areas.
What are the other concerns? What happens after 2021a relatively short time scale that is getting shorter by the year? The hon. Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett) referred to 900 affordable houses that are being built as part of a development in her constituency. Wherever I go, and from the representations of other Members, I hear that affordable housing is desperately needed. The key point is to achieve the right mix of affordability and general
development, ensuring that development takes place, but that it reflects the needs of first-time buyers and of people who want to rent.
Mr. Lilley: The hon. Gentleman referred to the need to build housing. The decisionin my constituency, not that of the hon. Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett)to build several thousand houses on the green belt was taken on the votes of Liberal Democrats in Hertfordshire county council. Is it Liberal Democrat policy to defend the green belt or to support building on it? Do they oppose building on the green belt only when they are in opposition, and support it only when they are in alliance with the Labour party and in government?
Mr. Williams: The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. He says that centrally imposed targets are difficult for local authorities to address when there are constraints on the areas in which they can allow development. He mentions the green belt implications and I, too, find it difficult to understand how one can substitute one area of land for an area of green belt on which planning permission has been given for development. It was either the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford or the hon. Member for St. Albans who said that the importance of green belt is the separation of towns and communities rather than the conservation involved in the substitution of a different area. The spatial importance of green belt has been lost in the argument.
The Government should consider supply as well as demand, and they should invest in northern regions, which are crying out for investment and for jobs. The right hon. Gentleman made a point about that, but the issue must be re-examined, because there is huge capacity in the north and west, and it could be used to our advantage. The key to the issue is the Secretary of State and centrally imposed targets. Local authorities and the assemblies should be trusted more and given more powers.
Mention has been made about planning gain, and we are concerned about the legislation that is before the House and about the fact that the money will not be given to local authorities for them to determine its use. It is the very antithesis of localism. Commenting on the report by the Select Committee on Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Mr. Rogerson) said:
This report confirms the Treasurys proposals on planning gain supplement contradict everything Ruth Kelly has been saying about devolving powers to local people and communities.
Replacing the current planning contribution paid by developers with planning gain supplement will not provide more money for the roads, schools, GPs surgeries and any new houses that are needed.
One other issue that must be considered is the VAT system. All new build is zero-rated but the refurbishment and reconstruction of existing property bears the full VAT rate. VAT equalisation would lead to the much better use of existing housing stock and facilities in order to meet the needs of the serious housing situation in Hertfordshire.
Mrs. Jacqui Lait (Beckenham) (Con): It gives me great pleasure to congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley) and other hon. Friends on securing the debate on housing targets in Hertfordshire. I congratulate, too, the hon. Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett) on her contribution.
I feel somewhat hesitant about speaking in a county-wide debate. However, I can go back further than my right hon. Friend in my memories of the county of Hertfordshire, because we had close family friends in Berkhamsted, and I remember 40 years ago taking the dogs for a walk on the hills around the town. I doubt that I could do so now, as over the years one has watched Hertfordshire fill with housing as its towns and villages have expanded.
I can understand why there is such concern among my right hon. and hon. Friends about the pressure on the county. Largely, it has been centrally directed by the Government and by their poodles, the unelected regional assemblies. My party is on the record as saying that we would abolish those assemblies and allow local people to decide the make-up of their communities.
I absolutely believe that local people know how their community could and should function, and that they are prepared to accept expansion and new housing to a capacity that they feel is consistent with their own needs and demands. One basic problem that we all face is the pressure on infrastructure and the need to increase the density of housing. I have the same problem in my constituency, an outer-London suburb. The Minister with responsibility for London has stood in this Chamber and said that Bromley should double its housing density, so I sympathise with and understand the problems that Hertfordshire residents face.
The key problem is infrastructure. I am sure that if the county council and others were given the opportunity, they could solve it. Indeed, they have volunteered to meet the housing targets that they feel capable of delivering. I have a Scottish accent, as hon. Members may have noticed, and quite apart from knowing Berkhamsted from many years ago, in the 1960s I spent an enormous amount of time as a Young Conservative working in Easterhouse, that fabled housing estate outside Glasgow which was built with no facilities or infrastructure whatsoever. That community is still not a coherent one, 40 or more years on, and it still has serious social problems, the like of which it will take a Hercules to solve. Enormous resources have been put in, so I absolutely understand the concerns about forced housing targets being set without the commensurate infrastructure.
It is a question not only of schools, houses and hospitals, but of roads, transport and water. It is easy, as the hon. Member for Stevenage pointed out, to say that every house in the UK should have a cistern built underneath it that is the same size as the house. Would that we had, but we are where we are. I have never built a swimming pool, but I understand the problem of shifting the earth, and that is without there being a house on top of it. It is cloud cuckoo land to think that every house in this country could be built with such a cistern. However, we sympathise entirely with her
objective, which we share, to save and gain rainwater. There are plenty of methods of doing that without building cisterns under houseswe can do it much more efficiently.
If fundamental infrastructure is not done right or properly funded from the beginning, it will produce dislocated communities, however sophisticated they are. As we see in the Thames Gateway, in my constituency of Beckenham, or in the situation hon. Members are facing in Hertfordshire, if the infrastructure is not there, fractured communities will result.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden alluded to another issue, on which I wish to take a different line. I accept entirely that at present there is a net outflow from London and the greater south-east to the other regions of the UK. However, we should address the reason why other regions are not generating real wealth in the way that they should, given that the bulk of the Russell group universitiesthe great research universitiesare outside the greater south-east. I do not understand why those areas are not more economically successful. I accept that in places such as Scotland or the north-west there is an increase in wealth, but that does not rely on fundamental new wealth creation.
Mr. Prisk: I listen with interest to what my hon. Friend says. Has she noticed, as I have in the past few weeks, the increasing evidence of the growing gap between north and south? Indeed, the evidence on house prices has shown that the gap has started to increase for the first time in 20 years.
Mr. Bill Olner (in the Chair): Order. Before the hon. Lady rises to that bait, I remind her that we are debating Hertfordshire housing targets.
Mrs. Lait: Mr. Olner, you are quite right. My hon. Friend has made his point. The relevance of what I am saying to Hertfordshire housing targets is that the pressure on housing would decrease if other areas of the UK were more economically sustainable. Of course, to revert to my point about infrastructure, my hon. Friend made the point that the housing targets assume commuting. We return to the point that if we are to have sustainable communities, there should be employment locally, particularly if they are to be environmentally sustainable. If there is no room in Hertfordshire for the wealth-creating industries, and the housing targets indicate that there is not, there is even more reason to solve the problem of regional economic wealth creation. That is one of the many routes that we want to take to solve the housing problem that we all admit exists.
I congratulate my right hon. and hon. Friends on calling for this debate. It has allowed them to air clearly the issues in Hertfordshire and allows us to put on record some other thoughts on ensuring that housing is provided for those people who need it.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Meg Munn):
I, too, congratulate the right hon. Member for Hitchin
and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley) on securing this debate on what is obviously a key issue for the people of Hertfordshire.
I say at the outset that I am constrained in what I can say because the Government are consulting about proposed changes to the draft east of England plan, which will set the house-building targets for each district and county in the region. It is a full 12-week consultation on what, at this stage, are only proposals. Ministers will carefully consider responses before taking final decisions. For reasons of propriety, I cannot get into a debate about potential further changes to the plan before Ministers have had a chance to consider all the views expressed.
I shall deal at the outset with the assertion made by the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk) in relation to the Minister for Housing and Planning. I made the decision on the east of England plan. She is not making decisions on any of the regional plans. There is nothing wrong with a housing Minister meeting an MP to discuss housing issues: it is a function of the role. Therefore, there has been no breach of propriety.
Mr. Prisk: If that is the case, will the Minister explain why her officials have issued a refusal on the papers in relation to the document on the specific grounds, under section 37 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, that Ministers should be able to engage in the formulation or development of policy on this subject? The papers have been refused on the basis that the Minister for Housing and Planning was discussing the subject. Is this Minister now saying that that is not true?
Meg Munn: The hon. Gentleman clearly was not listening. I said that the hon. Members in question were discussing housing issues. That is not the east of England plan, and the Minister for Housing and Planning is not making any decisions on those matters. I shall now move on to the issues
Mr. Prisk: On a point of order, Mr. Olner. Is the Minister honestly trying to suggest that the Minister for Housing and Planning did not discuss housing targets, which we are discussing today, with the Minister for Higher Education and Lifelong Learning, who represents Harlow ? Is she actually trying to claim that that is the case? That is nonsense.
Mr. Bill Olner (in the Chair): That is not a point of order for the Chair, but I take it that the Minister has heard the comments.
Meg Munn:
I shall explain the rationale for the level of growth, not just in Hertfordshire but in all parts of the region and nationally. I also want to put the record straight about the situation in Hertfordshire. Last winter, an independent panel held an examination in public to test the soundness of the draft east of England plan that the regional assembly had produced, following wide consultation. The draft plan represented their proposals: a bottom-up vision for the growth of their region, not a top-down diktat. The hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford called for a collaborative approach, so I am not sure exactly why he
objects to this approach. The assembly is made up mainly of elected councillors, complemented by experts and representatives from a wide range of stakeholders who have an interest in securing a strong sustainable future for the region.
The panel endorsed the basic thrust of the plan and the Secretary of States proposed changes built on the draft. However, the panel made a number of recommendations to improve it. They concluded that the case had been made for higher growth based on population growth, housing demand, affordability, and employment growth, and that growth can and must be reconciled with sustainability principles and environmental constraints. Ministers have accepted almost all the panels detailed advice, including their housing proposals for all but one of the 47 districts. To further clarify the matter, the independent panel does test those targets. The Government propose to increase the panels recommended target by less than 1 per cent.
I accept that the panels recommendations for Hertfordshire are controversial, but it found that the draft plan housing proposals were unbalanced. The figures for Hertfordshire in particular were too low. Let us look at the facts. Relative to population, the draft plan housing figures for Hertfordshire were well below the figures for counties such as Cambridgeshire, which has been actively planning to accommodate sustainable growth. The latest forecast of future housing needs in Hertfordshire is at least 30 per cent. higher than the scale of development that most of the Hertfordshire local authorities will accept. Our proposals are about in line with those forecasts and no more.
The ratio of average house prices to lower quartile household earnings is about 12:1 in Hertfordshire, making it the most unaffordable county in the east of England to live in. The situation has become worse in recent years. Many more houses are needed if local people are to find decent homes, which is a point that my hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett) illustrated well. Not building a sufficient mix of rented housing, equity share and homes for the majority who want to buy will just make affordability problems worse.
Hertfordshire has a role in meeting its share of Londons overall housing needs. The Mayor is seeking to maximise housing in London, but there are limits to what can be achieved on brownfield land in the capital. Londons economy is vital to UK plc overall and its workers need to live within reasonable commuting distances. Although the Government are working to support economic development and housing to match in every region of the UK, it is nonsense to think that Londons jobs can be sent to the other end of the country. Hon. Members clearly have not been to parts of the north recently. The north has recently been transformed and is making great progress, after the devastation of the years of Conservative Government.
Mr. Prisk: Will the Minister give way?
Meg Munn: I will not give way at this point, because hon. Members have put a great number of issues to me and I want to try to answer them all. If I have time later, I will happily give way to the hon. Gentleman.
While Londoners continue to move to Hertfordshire, such as when they start a family and want a garden, it is clear that Hertfordshire cannot close its doors. Incomers such as the son of the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Mr. Williams), many of whom are vital to the economy, will also be able to compete effectively in the housing market, so it is existing local people who would be hardest hit by insufficient housing.
As the panel pointed out, growth and living within environmental limits are not alternatives but joint imperatives. The proposed changes to the draft plan represent a new benchmark in reconciling the growth that we need with sustainability. We have taken the panels recommendations one step further and propose to put in place stronger policies to reduce water consumption, improve energy efficiency and drive up the recycling of waste.
It is alleged that there has been a lack of consultation. That is nonsense. First, consulting the public on our proposed changes is exactly what we are doing now. Secondly, there will be further substantial opportunities for public engagement at the local development plan document stage, when the broad intentions of the regional spatial strategy are translated by the local planning authorities into specific proposals. Thirdly, at the examination in public the panel asked the Hertfordshire local authorities what strategy they would propose if they were to recommend higher growth. Except for Stevenage borough council, none of them were prepared to put forward constructive proposals.
The green belt has taken centre stage in this debate. The pressing need for more housing, coupled with the sustainable benefits of expanding the new towns, provides the exceptional circumstances to justify the selective review of boundaries in a small number of locations. So, are we really talking about Hertfordshires green belt being concreted over? Absolutely not. Let me counter the mischievous misinformation that is being bandied about. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage said, the reality is that only 3 per cent. of Hertfordshires existing green belt will need to be built on in order to provide sufficient development land for the long term, to at least 2031. The rest97 per cent.will remain. We are also putting in place a stronger framework to make that land more accessible for recreation. There is no question of towns merging together and losing their identity. It remains national policy that green belts must prevent coalescence between nearby towns. The local decisions on green belt boundaries in Hertfordshire must respect that principle.
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