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Mr. Straw:
Never. When my right hon. Friend was in the Home Office with me and the party decided that it wished to go for a closed-list electoral system, we, as loyal servants of the party, set about advising the House to accept that. After a very long journey, thus was the case. I note that the hon. Member for
North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald) now seems to think that there is some merit in the system. He thinks that one thing that endorses the use of the closed-list system for the other place, which I do not support, is the fact that no one knows who the hell the current MEPs are.
Mr. Heald: Will the Leader of the House give way?
Mr. Straw: No, if the hon. Gentleman will allow me, because I was not really dissenting from him.
May I deal with the amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Liberal Democrat party, and explain why I advise all right hon. and hon. Friends, whatever side of the argument they are on, to vote against it? Under the final motion, we propose
“That this House is of the opinion that the remaining retained places for peers whose membership is based on the hereditary principle should be removed.”
We can argue about what will happen once the hereditaries are removed, and the subject will come up in any Bill that is introduced. Some say that we should simply end the by-election system and allow the remaining hereditary peers to sit in the Lords as if they were life peers. I think that there is much merit in that suggestion, but I may be in the minority; others have more radical proposals. The issue will have to be sorted out in cross-party discussions in both this House and the other place. A debate on the subject will take place when the next stage of reform takes place.
The Opposition parties’ amendment would add the following words to the end of the motion:
“once elected members have taken their places in a reformed House”.
The Opposition parties are wrong to imply, as they do in their amendment—simply through inadvertence, I think—that that was no part of what my noble Friend Lord Irvine of Lairg set out in the House of Lords when he announced the agreement that led to retaining only 92 hereditary Lords. What he said is correctly set out in paragraphs 3.27 and 3.28 of the White Paper. The word “election” is not mentioned at all; the words that he used were
“until the second stage of House of Lords reform has taken place.”
For the avoidance of doubt, I spoke to my noble Friend, the former Lord Chancellor, this morning, and he authorised me to say that the passage in the White Paper, at paragraphs 3.27 and 3.28, is a correct summary of the position. He went on to say, and I am authorised to repeat, that what was agreed in 1999 implied no guarantee of any particular stage 2. It was just a guarantee that there would be a legislative stage 2. Before the Front Benchers jump up, the reason for that is that the commitment was made even before the royal commission had reported, and still less before there had been White Papers, Public Administration Committee reports and so on.
We are not seeking to play a trick on hon. Members; we accept that the removal of the hereditaries should take place in the context of a Bill that reflects the views of this House, as expressed in the votes today, the views
subsequently expressed by those in the other place, and any agreement that we can reach. As a matter of historical record, it is simply not the case that what was said in the other place was linked to the inclusion of elected Members in the House of Lords.
Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con): I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for generously giving way. It was absolutely clear from what was said in the other place by the then Lord Chancellor that the hereditary peers would not go until reform of the second Chamber had taken place. Indeed, from what the Leader of the House just said, that is what the noble Lord Irvine has confirmed. What the Government are proposing in their motion is that the hereditary peers should go, without reform having taken place. That is the point addressed by the amendment.
Mr. Straw: Well, I am sorry, I disagree with the right hon. Lady. I have made my point. Hon. Members can vote for any proposal for reform, including the one that my hon. Friend the Member for Tyne Bridge (Mr. Clelland) wishes to pursue, which is an alternative type of reform. It is not true to say that he is not in favour of any reform, although I do not happen to agree with him. Hon. Members could also safely vote for the declaration that simply reaffirms what was determined back in 1999.
Mr. Heath: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Straw: I have very little time, but I will give way quickly to the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Heath: I am most grateful to the Leader of the House. He knows that we want to get rid of the hereditaries, and he also knows that we believe that it would be entirely perverse if the House voted against a fully appointed House this evening, but the Government then created a fully appointed House by removing the hereditaries without introducing a democratic element.
Mr. Straw: The Government intend to bring forward, after consultation, what I think will be a draft Bill—that may take time—that reflects the will of the House and of the other place, as far as we can accommodate them. We will listen with care to what the House of Lords says next week. We have no intention of bringing forward a Bill that simply removes the hereditaries, if the House decides on one of the other alternatives—on one of options 1 to 8 on the Order Paper. It would be mad of us to do so, because the House would quickly amend it. As a matter of record, it is not the case that my noble Friend Lord Irvine tied the undertaking to having elected Members, and it is important that we are accurate about that.
May I deal with the point raised by many hon. Members about the preferred semi-open list system or semi-closed list system—I draw particular attention to the hon. Member for Chichester—that was proposed in the White Paper? I have listened to almost all the 46 speeches that have been made in the Chamber. The best that can be said as a summary of the proposal for the semi-open list system, which has been my
preference, is that it is judged as better than the closed-list system, but not much more.
We are bound to take account of the voices in the Chamber and the serious objections that have been raised to that proposal. When right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House come to vote, they are not being asked at all to endorse the contents of the White Paper. We could have tabled a resolution—I thought about it—endorsing the White Paper. We decided not to do so because that would be too contentious and lead to us disappearing down all kinds of rabbit holes. Instead, we tabled very simple resolutions in terms that are clearly understandable. When the House votes on those resolution, I promise that those words, and those words alone, are all that will be indicated as a result of the vote.
Mr. Marshall-Andrews: I accept what the Leader of the House says. Are we not, though, being asked to vote for a majority—a large number—of elected Members, having no idea at all of the system of election that will take place? Is not that the danger?
Mr. Straw: That is like the argument about functions before powers or powers before functions. We can go round and round. If we want to see reform, we must take a key step on the road to reform. I am glad to see the Liberal Democrats nodding. I beg of them to follow their own manifesto commitment, which did not mention 100 per cent., although it spoke of a predominantly elected House, which is 60 per cent. as well as 80 per cent.
I promised the hon. Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) that I would give way to him, and this is for the last time.
Mr. Jenkin: I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for delivering his promise. He mentions powers and functions. Can he be clear that those will have to be included in any Bill that leads to any form of election? That will therefore be a large and complex Bill, and a very large constitutional change, perhaps meriting a referendum.
Mr. Straw: Let me deal with that. Central to the argument of those in favour of an elected element in a reformed House is, first, that the current composition or any wholly appointed Chamber fundamentally lacks legitimacy through the consent of the people whom they represent. The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), in a characteristically robust speech, said:
“We are in the 21st century, and if any new state proposed a new constitution, and suggested having an upper House that took the same form as ours, it would be regarded as utterly ridiculous. We are talking about legislators.”
My hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) put the case in a different but important way when she said that the current unsatisfactory situation reflected
“a deeper problem—an inability . . . to make sense of our new British identity”,
“we need institutions that reflect our diversity.”—[ Official Report, 6 March 2007; Vol. 457, c. 1430-58.]
My hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) made the critical point that democracy is a value, not a process.
The second argument advanced by those who are in favour of reform is that that could lead to a more vigorous and a more active Lords. I agree. It will lead to a more vigorous and more active Lords. I offer this reflection after 18 years in opposition and 10 years in government. Over that period, thanks to the introduction of departmental Select Committees in 1979 by the then St. John-Stevas and many changes that we have introduced, the level of scrutiny and activity of this place has greatly improved from the 1950s and 1960s. A former senior Commons Clerk, Michael Ryle, stated:
“Simple factual comparison with the 1950s and early 60s shows that Parliament—particularly the House of Commons—plays a more active, independent and influential role in Britain today than at any time for many years.”
However, I accept that the appearance is otherwise, for two sets of reasons. First, we had 11 years of strong, big-majority Governments under Margaret Thatcher, as was, and we have had 10 years of strong, big-majority Government under this Administration. One of the strengths of our system is that it usually does deliver strong Governments. By such means, we have avoided the paralysis and decrepitude of so many overseas Governments formed in shaky coalitions.
Secondly, in recent years, for a variety of reasons, government has become stronger in any event. I defend that, too. However, good, strong government requires a strong Parliament—a stronger House of Commons as well as, I suggest, a more vigorous and active reformed Lords. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) said, quoting Meg Russell and Maria Sciara of the constitution unit,
“A stronger upper House does not necessarily mean a weaker lower house—indeed possibly quite the reverse.”
Yesterday, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden) said:
“Primacy means that the House of Commons must have the final say—I agree with that—but it also means that we must allow ourselves to be challenged, and not challenged only on those things that it is convenient or okay for us to be challenged on, but on those things that it is difficult for us to be challenged on.”—[ Official Report, 6 March 2007; Vol. 457, c. 1447.]
The anxiety that the other place will do more of a job than we now expect of it lies at the root of the objection to any elected element in the Lords. It is the great fear that the absolutely fundamental and distinctive feature of our constitution—that this House has primacy—will be challenged and weakened by a mixed House. To put it in the better and more concrete language used by the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin), it is the fear that the monopoly powers of this House, which currently exclusively decides who governs, exclusively decides on Supply and tax and spend, and has the final say on every kind of legislation except on the length of a Parliament—hardly a live issue in British politics—will somehow be challenged by the insertion of some elected Members into the other place. It is the fear that the more the other place does, the less we will be able to do, as though a reformed House would suck the oxygen out of this place. It will not. There is an answer to those who cry, “Function before form.” We are already
agreed on function. As the White Paper spells out, all parties are agreed that the powers of any reformed Lords in relation to the Commons, and vice versa, should, as the Joint Committee said, be the powers as they are today.
A consequential issue was raised with me a moment ago—namely, can those powers be pinned down, and if so, how? Currently, that happens by convention, by resolution and by the Parliament Acts. The question is whether that is adequate. Again, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe gave the answer yesterday when he said:
“If there are hon. Members who fear that there would be pressure to abandon some of the conventions, I would be content to address that through statute.”—[ Official Report, 6 March 2007; Vol. 457, c. 1429.]
The point that I would make time and again is that that is in our power: we have the final say over legislation. If we judge that the conventions are inadequate, as we may, we can insert provisions into the statute.
Whatever view one took then, or takes now, there is no escaping the fact that when, four years ago, the House voted down every conceivable option for change or no change, it did not enhance the reputation of this place as the mother of Parliaments. My hope, above all, is that this evening the House will come to a clear decision. Of course, my preference is for a part-elected, part-appointed House in which elected Members will play a significant part. For that reason, I will vote for a 50 per cent., 60 per cent. and 80 per cent. elected House. I say to the Liberal Democrats that if by the ludicrous tactics they are going to employ we end up with 2003 all over again, they will have only themselves to blame.
However, there is a big difference compared with four years ago. At the most recent general election, all the parties committed themselves to reform. As I said when I opened the debate yesterday, we have a chance to implement not just one manifesto, but three. We can set out a clear direction of travel on the composition of a reformed Chamber for the first time in decades, and we can achieve what has eluded our predecessors for decades—a second Chamber that does not challenge the primacy of this House but which is legitimate, more effective and more representative. I commend the motions in my name.
It being half-past Five o’clock, mr. speaker put the Question already proposed from the Chair, pursuant to Order [27 February].
The House divided: Ayes 416, Noes 163.
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Afriyie, Adam
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Alexander, Danny
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Austin, Mr. Ian
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Balls, Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Barrett, John
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Bell, Sir Stuart
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benn, rh Hilary
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Binley, Mr. Brian
Blackman, Liz
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brennan, Kevin
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Brown, rh Mr. Gordon
Browne, rh Des
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, Andy
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Butler, Ms Dawn
Butterfill, Sir John
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cameron, rh Mr. David
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Cash, Mr. William
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Clelland, Mr. David
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Conway, Derek
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cousins, Jim
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Creagh, Mary
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Curry, rh Mr. David
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
Davey, Mr. Edward
David, Mr. Wayne
Davies, Philip
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Denham, rh Mr. John
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen
Dorries, Mrs. Nadine
Drew, Mr. David
Duddridge, James
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Farrelly, Paul
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Don
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Fox, Dr. Liam
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Mr. Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
George, Andrew
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Goggins, Paul
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodman, Helen
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gray, Mr. James
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Grogan, Mr. John
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harris, Mr. Tom
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Healey, John
Heath, Mr. David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Heppell, Mr. John
Herbert, Nick
Hermon, Lady
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Hillier, Meg
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holmes, Paul
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Martin
Howard, rh Mr. Michael
Howarth, David
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Glenda
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Kawczynski, Daniel
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keetch, Mr. Paul
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Key, Robert
Khabra, Mr. Piara S.
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Knight, Jim
Kramer, Susan
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lamb, Norman
Lammy, Mr. David
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Laws, Mr. David
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leech, Mr. John
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Linton, Martin
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Love, Mr. Andrew
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Mackinlay, Andrew
Maclean, rh David
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Main, Anne
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Mallaber, Judy
Maples, Mr. John
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Mates, rh Mr. Michael
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonnell, John
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McKechin, Ann
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Mercer, Patrick
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, Edward
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moore, Mr. Michael
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mulholland, Greg
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Mundell, David
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Oaten, Mr. Mark
Olner, Mr. Bill
Öpik, Lembit
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Price, Adam
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Prosser, Gwyn
Pugh, Dr. John
Purnell, James
Rammell, Bill
Randall, Mr. John
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rennie, Willie
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rogerson, Mr. Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rowen, Paul
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Bob
Russell, Christine
Salter, Martin
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Short, rh Clare
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Smith, Sir Robert
Snelgrove, Anne
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spink, Bob
Spring, Mr. Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, David
Taylor, Mr. Ian
Taylor, Matthew
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Teather, Sarah
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Thurso, John
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Tredinnick, David
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Turner, Mr. Neil
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Viggers, Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Walter, Mr. Robert
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Watkinson, Angela
Webb, Steve
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Wicks, Malcolm
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Willott, Jenny
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wood, Mike
Woodward, Mr. Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Dr. Tony
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. Ian Cawsey and
Jonathan Shaw
NOES
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Austin, John
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Blears, rh Hazel
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Burgon, Colin
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Clark, Ms Katy
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Crausby, Mr. David
Cruddas, Jon
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Efford, Clive
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Field, Mr. Mark
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Gapes, Mike
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hanson, Mr. David
Havard, Mr. Dai
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hood, Mr. Jimmy
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lepper, David
Lloyd, Tony
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marshall, Mr. David
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFall, rh John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meale, Mr. Alan
Miller, Andrew
Mole, Chris
Mudie, Mr. George
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearson, Ian
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Rowen, Paul
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ryan, Joan
Salmond, Mr. Alex
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, John
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vaz, rh Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Weir, Mr. Mike
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. Alan Campbell and
Steve McCabe
Question accordingly agreed to.
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